Transformative Principal

Jethro Jones: Welcome to Transformative
Principal, where I help you stop

putting out fires and start leading.

I'm your host, Jethro Jones.

You can follow me on
Twitter at Jethro Jones.

Welcome to Transformative Principal.

This is episode 537 and the last episode
of this school year of coaching with Eric.

And uh, if you have not been hearing all
of these, definitely go to the show notes

at Transformative Principal dot org where
we have episodes, five oh one, five oh

six five ten five fourteen five nineteen,
five twenty three five twenty seven.

5 32 and this episode there you can
check out all of those conversations.

This has been super fun, Eric.

I'm so glad we've done this.

Eric Makelky: Yeah, that as you list
those off, it seems like even more

coaching sessions than we've done.

That's a lot.

It's been a lot.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, I mean,
I think that's pretty cool.

And what a testament to you of
your dedication and willingness

and desire to get better and.

Continue to improve, you know,
and I think that's awesome.

So good for you.

Eric Makelky: Yeah.

Thank you.

Thanks for being willing
to do it and help me.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, I think it's
been a lot of fun and we have

decided that we are, uh, going to
write a book together, uh, on this,

which is pretty exciting also.

So we'll see what comes of that.

That I think is gonna be
the summer project, right?

Eric Makelky: Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't think it's gonna happen in May.

So maybe, maybe we can start that in June.

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

So, alright, so last time we talked
about, uh, relationships with parents.

Any follow up that you want
to chat with about from that?

Eric Makelky: No, it was a,
it was a fun episode though.

I wish, I wish I would've, would've
brought the topic up sooner.

Um, but there'll be more opportunities
down the road to use, use some of

the things that we talked about as
far as framing the conversation.

I.

So I haven't had any real
contentious ones as of late, but

Jethro Jones: that's always good.

I like that.

Eric Makelky: yeah.

Yeah, I was thinking, um, you know,
for a topic this week, you and I

had had mentioned a little bit.

You've been focused on helping me
and the kind of the theme of the

Transformative Principal podcast episodes
I've done is helping new principals.

But how about the topic of, um, new
teachers as we finish up the hiring

season and think about what we need
to have in place to help new, new

teachers be successful in the fall.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, I, I think
that that's a great idea, um, and

definitely a good topic to talk about.

Uh, so first of all, let's look back at
your experiences as a principal, both

here and in your previous district.

Um, What are some of the things that
you have done that you feel like have

been successful in helping new teachers,
uh, enculturate into your school?

Eric Makelky: Um,

I think every district does kind of
the standard, you know, the business

office and the paperwork and uh,
payroll and benefits and how all the

programs and login information works.

So let's just skip that cuz I think
that's, I mean, I guess that's important,

but it's not what makes people stick
around and that's what I'm interested in.

Um, I think having,

The, the best thing that I've had
in place, or that I've been a part

of with new staff is we had a thing
called the New Teacher Academy,

where we had in-house, um, teachers
come in and model and showcase and

share practices from their classroom.

So we would just take like our
instructional framework, what we say

is good teaching and learning in our
district, and then we would bring in, uh,

A current teacher, a returning teacher,
which it was a nice perk to them, right?

Because you get to come kind of be
the model of, you know, routines and

procedures or, um, some other strategy,
and we would pay 'em, you know, a little

extra for coming in and doing that.

But I, I think that was a great system
because it helped new teachers see,

not just read a list of what we.

Want to see in classrooms.

And then having the in-house people
lead it gave them connections in the

district if they needed things or had
questions, they knew, Hey, I can go

watch that teacher do this, or email that
teacher and, and share some resources.

So I think that was pretty successful.

Um, we worked on this a lot.

In my last district, and one thing
that seemed silly, but we started

doing that, made a huge difference
is like day one with new teachers.

First thing in the morning,
we thought about like, what

do they really wanna know?

It's not payroll and defensive
driving classes online, and it's

not instructional strategies.

It's like, where's the printer?

Where's my room?

Where's the coffee machine?

And we, we literally did like a half
day around the building, the library,

what doors kids come in and out of
where staff park like a, just a real

basic like, welcome to the building.

And they really appreciated that cuz
I think once you answered those things

and they knew where they were, they
could focus more on the other stuff.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, that, that does
seem like silly to think that you

need to get that granular about
like what door do kids come in.

But those are things that people
don't know and they take for

granted once they do know.

So the question to ask then is, Is
that, is that a worthwhile use of your

time when you have limited time with
them, and is there a better way that

you could get that information to them?

What are your thoughts on that?

Eric Makelky: Yeah, it's definitely not
the best use of, like, if you only have

one day with new teachers, you wouldn't
wanna spend a half day doing that.

But I guess if nothing else,
you could kind of make a list.

And then as teachers trickled in,
in the summer to get their keys,

most of them aren't gonna wait till
that first day of contract time.

Um, you could take 'em on a quick little
tour and share a list with them of where

things are and you know, who do I go to if
I need more paper or we need more of this.

Jethro Jones: I, I think that
taking that, that time that you

have is valuable and how do you
make it as valuable as possible?

Because those things also like the
payroll and the login and how to

access the tools, that's not what
is gonna make people stick around.

And that's really what you're trying
to get at here is how do we make it

so that people feel a connection to
the school and to the people here

and want to stick around so that.

They're not just gonna take
whatever other job comes along,

but they're gonna feel like they're
actually part of the community.

Right?

Eric Makelky: what do they really need
to be ready for the first day of school?

Because you have to prioritize
all the stuff that everybody

wants to cover with new teachers.

Right?

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

Eric Makelky: That's a hard
one cuz I think everybody who's

involved thinks that, you know,
they need this before day one.

But if you really think
about like what do they need?

To be ready for day one.

Resources, curriculum.

Um, kind of a, a plan like if they're
a brand new teacher, maybe a, some

classroom management Harry Wong stuff
to set up routines and procedures.

Cause I've learned you can't just
assume they know how to do that.

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

Yep.

So I, I think that what you're
getting at here is that truly every

person's gonna need their own.

Thing.

But if we can focus it down to
what the specific things are that

people, that everybody needs,
then we'll be in good shape.

So as I'm, I'm hearing you talk,
I'm hearing something that you're

not specifically saying, and I
might be putting words in your mouth

because this is my own bias, but
let me know if this is true or not.

Um, the first day of school,
you want to be successful.

But it's not the last day of school.

You want them to come back multiple days.

Right.

For the whole year.

Eric Makelky: not just the first contract

Jethro Jones: that's right.

And so you, you want them to
have success and to feel like

it's going to be successful.

Um, and do you want to give them like,
just enough that they feel that, but

not so much that they're overwhelmed?

This is a hard balance and what that
keeps coming back to me is, If they

really understand the vision of what
you're trying to do in your school, then

they're probably going to be able to find
success if they get what the vision is.

Is that too simplistic?

Do you think that that's like too
basic and they need more than that?

And please be honest.

Don't, don't tell 'em

Eric Makelky: I, I think that's the big
picture and all the other things that I've

been listing are the small pieces of that.

But here's my question to you.

How, how do you do that?

Let's say you have one day
with new teachers outside of

everybody else's contract time.

How, how do you help them understand
what the vision is and feel connected

to that and understand their role,
and feel supported and feel ready

with the stuff they're gonna need?

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

I think that's a, that is to me the real
question because if you, if you just

talk about vision and don't talk about
any of the, the specifics, the brass

tacks, the, the, the things they need
to really be doing, then they're gonna

think that you're not helpful at all.

If you only spend time on the, on the
practical aspects of it, then they're

gonna wonder what all this is for.

Is this just another school?

And some of them will be totally
fine with that, but that doesn't

necessarily mean that everybody will.

And so I think it's, it's about
finding a balance between those things.

So I, I have some ideas about that,
um, that, that I'll share here.

But I think that this is something that
like, that everybody who's listening

to this, you really need to take time
and think about what it is that people

actually need and not what you think.

They need because there is a difference.

For example, this is a, a tale as old as
time, but it did actually happen to me.

My, my, I got hired like a week and a half
before school started, and, um, and so I

could not attend all of the, the pre um,
the pre-service, the training and stuff

before school started because I, I was

Eric Makelky: you're
talking as a teacher, right?

Jethro Jones: As a
teacher, yes, as a teacher.

Um, and so I, I couldn't attend everything
because I was working another job and

just got a job and so I had to take,
you know, that little transition time.

So what basically happened is I
went in there at the end of one

day and uh, the principal walked me
in and said, there are your books.

Your mentor is in this
classroom, and good luck.

I gotta go do something else.

And like, That that happens way more
often than any of us would like to

advance, so we need to be more intentional
than that Now, I actually thrived in

that situation because I didn't want
anybody to tell me anything to do.

I wanted to be able to
figure it out for myself.

So I had questions and I needed help,
and I was not as good a teacher as I

thought I was, but, Uh, as much as I
hated all those trainings in following

years and what a waste of time they
were for me, I was very grateful

to not be burdened by any of that.

Uh, my first, my first year.

So, uh, so I didn't really have any
guidance on this, and I don't remember

my first day of school at all.

The first day that I taught, I.

I just remember going home in my calves
aching incredibly from, uh, walking

around the entire day on, on concrete.

So that's, that's my first experience.

I don't think that, uh, that that's
good, but I think a lot of people

experience something like that.

So the first thing I wanna share is,
um, is a Trello board, and I'll put a

link to this in the, in the show notes.

Have I shared this Trello
board with you before?

Eric Makelky: I don't think so.

Jethro Jones: about onboarding.

So when I was in Kodiak, um, uh,
Damon Hargraves and I, uh, worked

on this to make it for our teachers.

Moving to Kodiak, Alaska was a
big deal, and it was difficult

for people to get there.

So we needed people to understand
so many things about working

in Kodiak that they couldn't.

That they couldn't understand
without us providing a lot.

So one of the things that we did is we did
a series of emails to them and, uh, I'm

showing Eric this Trello board right now,
and you, if you click the link in the show

notes at Transformative Principal dot org,
you can look at this same thing and you

can walk through it with us if you want.

So what we did is we, we had a series
of 10 emails going out to them.

That would explain all these
different things about our school

and where they were gonna live.

And we had a couple of
things that were important.

Number one, we wanted them to know
about Kodiak itself and how it, how

it worked, what kinds of things they
could understand, how they would

get there, all that kind of stuff.

So in each letter we sent, we would have.

Uh, something about life
and something about work.

And so we gave them these emails
as a way for them to understand

like what was really going on.

So, so the, the first emails title is,
yay, I'm part of Kodiak Middle School.

Now what?

And then we would say,
here's, here's all this stuff.

And, oh, mine and Damon's cell
phone numbers are in there.

Might want to adjust that.

I'll, I'll do that.

Um, but anyway, there's links to our
social media, there's links to the,

the staff workday, things that happen,
enrollment, all that kind of stuff so the

people could, could know what's going on.

So we would send that and then after
that we would talk about finding

housing and then getting specific gear.

Being a responsive educator, cuz
that was important to us, our

continuous improvement model,
standards based instruction.

P b i s trauma and more.

And then it would, the next email,
eight would be tools of the trade,

how we get work done in Kodiak.

Uh, email nine was the schedule.

And then, uh, email 10 was, uh,
planning your first year rollercoaster.

And, and so each of those emails were,
were designed to give them information

and help them see what they could expect.

So as a, as a starting point, I
would say if you don't have a set of

onboarding emails for new staff members,
uh, it would be very wise to do that.

And then we put them in MailChimp
and we sent them out automatically.

So when somebody got hired, we added
them to this campaign and it sent

all 10 emails out automatically.

We set it and forget it.

We never had to worry about that again.

So that's, that's one way.

Take advantage of the fact that
you hired them early enough

that they can get these emails.

Here's the thing, if we hired someone,
the week before school started like

happened with me, we still sent
these emails that are out every week

to them going into the school year.

So really if you got hired the week
before, by the end of quarter one,

you would've finally gotten all
of the emails and most of them at

that point, you would probably have
already figured that stuff out.

But it was really valuable for
us to have a resource for people.

To, to experience and, and
learn about what we were doing.

Eric Makelky: Yeah.

That's great.

That's great.

They didn't send you all
10 that day you signed.

Jethro Jones: No,

no.

That, that might be a little overwhelming.

Eric Makelky: Yeah.

Well, and that, that's one thing that I
know I've been guilty of is when you're

working with new hires, overwhelming 'em.

Jethro Jones: yeah.

Eric Makelky: And you know, thinking
back to when I've been new, like

how much of that stuff that you go
through in a meeting at the start

of the year, are you gonna remember?

I know.

I'll, I'll end up calling people
and asking for help, even though

they showed me how to do it because

Jethro Jones: Yep.

Eric Makelky: you, you just won't
retain every single thing you read

in the staff handbook and every
app and list of everything, so,

Jethro Jones: Yep.

Uh, you won't.

That is true.

And so, uh, you want
to make sure that you.

Uh, don't expect that to happen.

So, so I mean, it, it's, it's easy
to, to start out thinking like,

oh yeah, they really need this.

When the reality is, is they
don't actually need all of that.

So we probably put too much information
in there, but because it was dripped

out over a course of 10 weeks and, uh,
we knew that they wanted information.

That was a pretty easy way
to get that information out.

That was manageable for us, and, and
that's what really I, that's what I think

really matters is figuring out a way to
make it manageable for everybody and still

get the information out that you need to.

Eric Makelky: Yeah, and even if they
already have answers, it's good to have

that in there cuz some people will, it
will be relevant and if not, they can just

skip, skip to the relevant parts of those.

Jethro Jones: Yep.

And here's, here's the other thing,
because we knew what was in those emails,

we could refer them back to it or find
it in the email and then resend it

out to 'em so that they would have it.

And then we were giving the same
information to everybody and we, we

weren't wasting time repeating things
or retyping answers that we already had.

So you saw on that troll board, I
could just go in and copy the text

and then paste it and send it to
'em, and, and that was really easy.

You can also share something like that.

This, uh, this is messy intentionally
because that's how we, we set it up

and, um, And in our brainstorm working
through it, we created all these cards

and then moved them to the appropriate
things, including putting pictures

and images in there and everything.

And it was, it was worthwhile and
valuable to set it up that way.

Um, and it was not, it was not as
hard as it seemed at first, nor was

it as hard as it seems right now.

Looking back on it, I'm like, oh my
gosh, that looks like a lot of work.

But in reality, it really.

It really wasn't that difficult.

It was all the stuff that was in my
mind that I just needed to get out.

Eric Makelky: Mm-hmm.

Can you, can you share that board
with me if you haven't already?

Jethro Jones: Yes.

Yep.

I will, I'll send, send you
a link to it so you got it.

Eric Makelky: And you're saying, I
can't leave your cell phone in there.

If they have questions,

Jethro Jones: Uh, I actually, I put
my, my eight oh one seven Jethro cell

phone in there instead of my other one.

So, so they, they certainly
can, if they want to.

Eric Makelky: you're gonna put
this live on the web and you're

gonna be getting teacher, teacher
calls from all over the country.

Hey, I heard you're the guy to talk to
about if I'm new in Arkansas or Wyoming,

Jethro Jones: That's right.

Yep.

Yep.

I will, I will help you out and yeah,
uh, since my phone number is eight oh one

seven Jethro, that's my public number.

Uh, and that does go to my cell phone, but
it's, it's kind of fun to, to have that so

people, people can access that for sure.

And please, yeah, email
me, call me, text me.

I'd be happy to chat
with you more about it.

the other thing that I would say about
this is that if you have a clear vision,

so for example, what I, after doing
this in Kodiak, I went to Tana in, in

Fairbanks, and I was so clear on what my
vision was that I made it, it was so easy

to talk to about people because my vision
was we, we do personalized learning for

students, which means that every student.

Their learning is personalized to
them rather than to a whole class.

So my, my, my coaching to all new
teachers was, you need to get to know your

students the first two weeks of class.

Nothing else matters, so don't, don't
worry about any curriculum type stuff.

You just get to know your students.

And then we also did things to set.

The whole school up for getting to know
their students by doing different things

the first three days of school as well.

So we didn't, like, kids, didn't even get
their schedule till the second or third

day of school, and that was by design so
that they would get to know each other,

their teachers and other people at school
before they worried about what their

classes were and who their teachers were.

So that ideally, hopefully, They've
got connections and relationships

with people in their classes before
they even know who those people are.

So that was, that was
another thing that we did.

We set up our school to be focused on
providing support for everybody who is

new, not just for the teachers, so that
students understood what our vision

was and what we were trying to do.

And so the teachers understood it as well.

And then new teachers could kind of
like relax those first couple days.

Because they're still not quite ready
and so we gave them a little bit more

time to To figure some things out.

Eric Makelky: Can I ask you about
mentoring with new teachers?

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

Eric Makelky: I've, I've seen mentor
systems that I think are overdone,

like over formalized and you know,
every other week meeting and doing book

studies with your mentor and paying
your veteran teachers a stipend to

do all these hours with new teachers.

And I don't think that has been real
effective cuz you're kind of trying

to force a mentor mentee relationship,
but especially high schools.

Um, Where teachers a lot of times are
singletons and kind of just in, in a cave.

It's, it's hard to have a, like
a natural way for new teachers

to make that connection and
have like a go-to colleague.

So we're, we're, we're kind of ramping
up some collaborative teams with our PLC

work that I think is gonna help where
they have a regular, um, Like weekly,

at least collaborative team they can
meet with, to share ideas and resources

and help overcome some challenges.

But what, what have you found
effective with mentorship programs?

Not over formalized, but not just
kind of hoping they find a connection.

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

So there need to be, there need to be
structures in place that give them a

person to go to, but there shouldn't be.

Uh, like requirements and things
that force those things to happen.

So what you ultimately want, and, and
our problem in education is that we

think that everything has to be the
same for everybody, and it just doesn't.

So we really should be personalizing
the onboarding and the mentorship

for each person individually.

And that means that some things need
to be really focused and structured.

Number one, everyone should have
a mentor that they can go to, and

that that person doesn't get to say.

I'm too busy to help you right now.

Like my door is always open for
you because I am your mentor.

If that means we need to pay them them
some money or do something else to

make it worth their while, give them
an extra prep period, I don't know.

But they've got to know, this is the
person I can go to for, for some support.

That's gotta be absolutely there.

And they need to know who that
person is and they have to be

comfortable with that person.

So you may have to find a different
person if they're not comfortable, but.

W I believe that finding that mentor
is one of the most essential things

you can do after you hire someone.

Because if they, if they one, get taught
in a poor way of what things are about,

then bad ideas are going to perpetuate.

So, uh, one of the things that, that
one of my mentors told me, I had two

different mentors cause I went to
two different schools, um, was that,

I shouldn't smile until Christmas,
which I think is just terrible advice.

And yes, you should smile
all year long and you should

be happy and enjoy your job.

But by by her saying that I learned
that that's what she valued and what was

important to her, and anything that I
tried to do that was outside of that or

that didn't follow, that she would go back
to that and say, oh, well you shouldn't

be smiling until Christmas anyway.

And, you know, some other things
happened where people said you shouldn't.

Uh, and I heard this from teachers that,
that were new in my schools, that you

shouldn't say anything to disagree with
the principal until you have tenure.

Um, which then creates a habit
over three to five years, however

long tenure is in your district.

And then you never say that you disagree
and you, uh, just take the role of being

a good soldier, which isn't good either.

And so, You know, you need to really
be intentional about who you choose

as a mentor and make sure that
it's a good fit for that person

and a good fit for your school.

Also, you don't want to choose a
mentor who is badmouthing, complaining,

talking bad about people all the time.

And sometimes those people get
chosen as mentors because they're

good at other parts of the job.

But we're talking about culture here,
and those things are culture killers.

To be sure.

So be really tight on that.

Have a great mentor for that person.

The other thing that you need to be really
tight on is that the mentoring happens

according to what the mentee needs,
not according to what the mentor needs.

So if, if the mentee needs to go
have coffee in the morning, then.

That's the plan.

That's what you do to make that happen.

If they need to stay after
school and have, uh, a mentor

meeting, then that's what you do.

And you can't say that everybody
needs mentoring in the exact same way.

So, uh, solid mentor happening as
the mentee needs, even if they don't

necessarily want it, but as they
need, the mentoring happens with them.

And then the third piece that I think
is just super important is that you

understand that mentoring is not
just about pedagogical strategies,

that it is about mentoring the
culture of the school as well.

And if you take those three things and
focus on those three things, I think

that you're gonna find success and
the rest of it can figure itself out.

What are your thoughts on that?

Eric Makelky: I like that.

I think a lot of times when we
set up mentors, it's like, well,

who else is in that department?

You know, put a new math teacher
with the other math teacher

and that's the only option.

And really that's part of why
it becomes pedagogy instead of

everything else that the mentee needs.

Um,

So I like that just feeling like,
you know, you can get outside

the box when you're trying to
find the right person to mentor.

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

Eric Makelky: Um, I had heard
some really interesting ideas.

I don't know.

We were at a, a training a couple weeks
ago and they mentioned inviting in,

um, your retired teacher population
and doing like lunch with new teachers.

Or coffee with new teachers.

And I thought that was, uh,
like a, a unique way to like,

help 'em build a connection.

I don't know how much, you know, they
definitely wouldn't be doing pedagogy,

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

Eric Makelky: but, or technology
or anything like that.

But, um, we have a lot of
retired teachers here that don't

want to come back and sub or.

Don't wanna, you know, work regularly,
but that might be something that we

said, Hey, you know, come in once a
week if you can on a, a lunch period.

And they had mentioned the importance
of making sure new teachers

have someone to eat lunch with,

Jethro Jones: Mm-hmm.

Eric Makelky: just like teachers
lounge, which we all know can be a

bad place sometimes to eat lunch.

Um,

Jethro Jones: I got
funny stories about that.

Oh boy.

We, we go on for a while,
but we won't today.

But ask me in person about a
good teacher's lounge story.

Uh, the, the thing that I like about
bringing in retired folks is that

they have experience and hindsight.

And they're done.

So they don't really have
a dog in the fight anymore.

And so I think that if that person
is, is a good person to be a mentor,

you know, going back to the things
that we already talked about, um, then

that can be a really powerful thing.

If, if they were somebody who was just
dying to get out and and hated their last

five years, you don't want that to happen.

But if there's somebody who was
like, Energized and engaged.

You know, uh, for example, Kathy Krutz,
I, I can't help but bring her up.

Every time I think about a
teacher retiring, she was ready to

retire and she was a third grade
teacher at a Title one school.

She'd put in her years, she had done
a great job, and she said, uh, instead

of retiring, she said she wanted to
come back one more year and try the new

curriculum that we were adopting and.

I was like, are you serious?

Like you could leave and not learn
something brand New year last year.

And she's like, no, I just wanted to
like, see what it was gonna look like.

I, I was part of the implementation
adoption process and I wanted

to see how it all worked out.

And so she did one more year and
man, she was the best I would.

Had I thought of that idea of bringing
her back, I would've brought her back in a

heartbeat because she was so positive and
understood the work so well and like went

out on a high note, even though that year
was probably her hardest year ever and

she had a lot of really challenging kids,
but she was, she was great and didn't

regret sticking around another year and.

That's the kind of person that
you want to have, be a mentor.

And uh, I don't know what she did after
that year, but uh, I know she retired,

but while she was retired, I don't
know if she stuck with the schools

or did anything, but she was amazing.

And that's the kind of person
you wanna find for sure.

Eric Makelky: Yeah, and I would
think a lot of the like career

teachers that retire, they miss.

You know, one of the best parts of this
job is like the camaraderie with the staff

and feeling a part of, of the school.

And if they don't wanna sub or they
don't wanna like do some formal thing,

it's a great way for them to still
feel connected with what's going on at

the school and who the new people are.

You know, cuz as you retire you
kinda, pretty soon it's like, oh, I

don't even know half the staff there.

I don't know the administrators.

So I thought that was a, a great idea.

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

I like that.

Very cool.

Anything else before we wrap up?

Good timing.

I think we froze.

We'll just cut that out.

Are we back?

And here we go.

All right.

We back.

Eric Makelky: Yeah, you were frozen.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, it happens.

All right.

Uh, anything else you want
to add before we sign off?

Eric Makelky: No, I was just
saying I got a lot of work to do.

Jethro Jones: Yeah,

Eric Makelky: So, no, no new topics
for a couple weeks, although this will

be our last one of the school year.

Jethro Jones: that's right.

Yep.

Eric Makelky: So principal
coaching in June and July would

be, um, fishing technique.

So if you want to do those, maybe
we'll put 'em on a different podcast.

Jethro Jones: I like it.

That sounds pretty good.

All right.

Thanks Eric.

Have a

Eric Makelky: Thanks.

You too.

See you Jethro.

Jethro Jones: I.