Transformative Principal

Shelley Berman
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[00:00:00] Welcome to Transformative Principle. I am here live for this episode at the CAST UDL Con International Conference, and here we are talking about all things related to Universal Design for learning, which is a way to make it so that learning is accessible to all students. This has been a great conference

so far, the one you're listening to right now is from the UDL Conference. And really a great time. Check it out, Check out cast.org for information about UDL. UDL-Con and so much more.

Alright, welcome to this special edition of Transformative Principal. I am excited to be here at UDL Conn in Sacramento, [00:01:00] uh, with Cass, uh, chair of the board, Shelley Berman. Shelley, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.

Thanks, Jethro. It's wonderful to be here. Thanks for doing this interview.

Well, the pleasure is mine and, and I'm excited to talk with you. Uh, you said something earlier that I think was incredibly powerful and it's like a recurring theme that I've heard from multiple people I've talked to at the conference, which is that UDL is a life-changing approach. Can you tell me more about why it's so life changing for so many people?

Sure. The, the essence is that it shifts your perspective and anything that really shifts your perspective and makes you see things from a, a, a different orientation. And is illuminating and insightful, and in this case, you know what it does is it shifts from the student being the problem and the, and our role in education is fixing a broken kid to that we have a broken [00:02:00] system.

And how do we adjust the system so that all kids can be successful? So it's a, it's a complete shift from, you know, focusing on this, fixing a student to fixing the, the environment and fixing schools so that they are most effective. So it, it puts the onus back on us. Yeah.

Yeah, and the thing that's so powerful about that to me is that we are the only ones who can change us anyway. And so the only ones who can make any of that change happen is us, and by us as the adults taking responsibility, the learners. Take responsibility as well, because one, they see it modeled, and two, they also learn that you are the one who's in control of your life.

Uh, what would you add to that?

You know that, that's a great way of saying it. You know, what I see in, in Universal Design for Learning is that it puts us in a different relationship with learners that instead of us. Feeling [00:03:00] like we need to, uh, help them develop mastery in a sense. We are actually giving them agency.

We're actually empowering them. And in fact, our relationship is to study the student. It isn't about I'm gonna direct you to do X and you're gonna get these skills. It's, I'm gonna study you as a person and how you learn and how I can help facilitate that learning. And we are in a partnership. Yes. Rather than in a, uh, authoritative relationship.

Now obviously teachers and principals and come to this with, you know, some authority and some knowledge, and obviously, you know, we, we know learning theory and all of that, but, uh, but now we get to apply it in a really individual way and individual context. And I think it changes the relationship because we get to know kids in a much deeper and, uh, much more responsive way.

Well, and that idea of getting to know [00:04:00] kids in a more responsive way, I think is really powerful because it, it takes you from saying, here's this kid and here's this information about this kid to.

what

preventing this kid from being successful and what barriers are there that I can remove? And taking that approach, uh, turns it from struggling through something difficult to being excited to solve a puzzle.

And, and that's how, that's kind of the feeling of what I'm hearing people talk about here at UDL Con is that it's about solving a puzzle that is an enjoyable. Fruitful thing that is good and not like trying to fix someone, which just sounds terrible and so difficult.

Yeah. You know, the, it, it does bring forward our creativity. You know, the, there's, there's something that's when, when you're thinking about, uh, designing lessons or when you're thinking about [00:05:00] designing your course, and, and I, I, I just finished actually teaching a university course, so I was back in the classroom doing teaching again.

And you, you think. Uh, how am I going to shift this so that we are really in conversation? So this is really about an exchange and, um, one that, uh, the, the students want to be engaged in. And it it's that power of create, creating something of an environment where people really want to be there and.

Oftentimes we think of, I'm gonna structure this lesson and this is gonna be the way, you know, I, I have to, I was a social studies teacher, so you know, there's certain standards that I have to meet. The kids have to know so much about US History and I'm gonna have to teach that US History. Um, but there's a bigger picture here, and that is, you know, what are the themes that I want them to come away [00:06:00] with and how do I engage in conversations about those themes and there Then how do I create experiences?

So that it moves beyond the, their barriers and that they can engage in the conversation about the meaning of history or the meaning of these events for themselves. Um, so it, it's, you know, it, it, um, in some ways I can understand that a, for some teachers it's a little bit scary in that you're giving up control and you're giving up your, your.

Order of what you've organized and your sort of didactic way of approaching it, but at the same time, it opens up tremendous creativity so that you're, you're actually learning from your students.

Yeah. Well, and that idea of learning from your students is, is so fun because, because you, you really can. And, um, the keynote speaker this morning, uh, Paula Klu, she talked about a student who, who [00:07:00] saw, who, who she was able to see the learning that happened with that student weeks later, but it was clear as day, and she only knew the learning happened because she knew.

The student, which she didn't say in her thing. Um, but she, she shared, uh, an equivocal, uh, uh, equivalent story of a parent, like knowing when a kid has learned something and you only know those, that other people are learning those things in those ways that she was talking about without going into all the story because you know the student.

And so when you know the student and you know what is so important and essential to them. You start to see how they can really make an impact and do something powerful that somebody else may not be able to see. And certainly a regular old teacher who's just trying to teach a curriculum is not gonna see.

How does that getting to know the [00:08:00] students and their, and building that relationship, how does that play into this?

well, you know, I think you just expressed it Well, you know, the art of teaching is, is about, getting to the, the heart of the learning process for the student. And so as I see it. and I'm gonna go back to social studies as for a, a simple example. Um, every historical, event can be interpreted in a variety of ways and hearing the differences of perspective. From students, just like what Paula shared in her, her keynote, the demonstration that they've learned something.

Um, they may learn something that, you know, you didn't necessarily think to teach. And that insight may be more powerful than any other insight that emerges. And so instead of just listening, did they meet the standard? Is what did they get? What meaning? Did this have for them? And how did it influence [00:09:00] their perspective?

Um, whether it's science or math or, you know, the, just the, the insight that they get. The, you know, and let me take math as a, as a great example. You know, the, we've been so rigid about our, you know, we, we need to do math in a particular way. But what we've realized is that students solve problems in multiple ways, and it's actually when students hear each other.

Solving them in different ways that they get insights into, you know, just the solving of the problem itself and the different approaches. And so we may not have even thought about how to solve a problem in the way that they're solving a problem. Um, and it may look convoluted to us, but there's something in that thinking that's evolving and that, and that's the fascination in it.

You know, that's the, the variability in how we think and how we put things together. Um, it, it moves us away from uniformity, um, and gives us the [00:10:00] richness of diversity.

Yeah, I, I, I've gotta share this story because it's so powerful. During the pandemic, we moved from Alaska to Washington, so we homeschooled our kids for a year and. My daughter came up to me and said she was like first or second grade or something. Um, I think that's right. Anyway, she was quite young and she said, I wanna learn multiplication.

And I said, oh, multiplication. Cool. Here's a 12 by 12 grid so you can start figuring that out. Here's how it works, and, and you can do it. Go do your thing and, and then come check in with me. Here. I was thinking like, okay, I'm just gonna, she's basically gonna teach yourself, uh, multiplication and, uh. And I'm gonna give her the tools so she can, because I'm a teacher and I know what I'm doing well.

Turns out that she came back a few minutes later and she's like, dad, this isn't working. And I was like, what do you mean it's not working? It works. Here's, you know, four times four is this. And she's like, but dad, I wanna know what 13 times 15 is. And I was like, oh, So [00:11:00] I didn't get to know what you were trying to do well enough to help you under, like reach your your own goal.

And I had my own idea of what multiplication meant at your level, at your age, thinking that that was sufficient and it just wasn't because she wanted to know what 13 times 15 was. Now Shelly, I have no idea why she wanted to know that or what it was about. I don't remember anything else around that. But I remember so clearly being wrong because I wasn't paying attention to what she needed.

I was paying attention to what I thought she needed, and it was such a beautiful illustration to me of how. We so often don't know what the right answer is because we don't know what the real problem is

Yeah, I think that's perfectly on target. I mean, that's, that's exactly what we're, you know, what Universal Design for Learning is all about. You know, the, the concept I, this is a broader concept.

Um, you know, reason recently I wrote a, a book called Implementing Social Emotional Learning, and [00:12:00] it was a study of six districts implementing. Social emotional learning in their districts. Um, and one of the things that that stands out. Um, is in terms of success of implementation is that there are sort of two, two arenas.

Um, and I'll draw the analogy to UDL in a moment, but the two arenas, one is there's sort of skills focused social emotional learning programs, the 30 minute lesson in whatever social skills, and, and those are great. I don't wanna diminish that.

There

other programs that actually focus on the culture of the classroom and say, let's create a sense of community, a sense of belonging in the classroom where we take responsibility for, for each other and for the relationships that we establish.

So if there's harm done in a relationship, that we heal that harm and that we do the, if there's conflict that we resolve that conflict in the context of a natural day, uh, you know, classroom day. Um, so there's class meetings and morning meetings, closing meetings, ways to build community. [00:13:00] And what I found was that in districts that use the sort of environment, uh, as the context for learning and shifted from, you know, again, fixing the kid to, you know, who has, doesn't have the social skills to let's fix the environment so that all kids are, uh.

Uh, encountering the social skills that they need and learning them in context, it makes a tremendous difference. Um, and the same thing is true in UDL, that change of perspective. That shift of perspective to say what adults are really in control of is the environment. And let's create responsive environments, responsive, emotionally responsive academically, uh, responsive socially so that that students come to school feeling that they have a place.

That they're known both in the academic sense in terms of the cognitive sense, in terms of the way they're entering the classroom in a social sense, in terms of the [00:14:00] engagement that they have with each other and in an emotional sense where they feel safe and they feel that this is a place that I can make mistakes, that I can explore and I can, I can do things then and I can be wrong.

And actually that's okay. So you know As I see it, you know, universal Design for learning is, is, is a much broader concept, um, and embodies that whole sense that we are to transform education. We need to ground it in the, the thinking, the development, the the, um, understanding. Of the variability within our students and be responsive to that and welcome that.

Yeah. And. That key piece. A big welcome to that is a big piece also because you, we designed school to be, everybody goes through together at the same time [00:15:00] and you get left behind if you're not up to speed. And the reality is that everybody has their own little. Uh, knowledge block that's inside them that's impacted by all aspects of their life and their personality and their beliefs and, and the culture and all that kind of stuff.

And, and if you just try to throw stuff to stick at it, as most, uh, curriculums are designed, it's not really going to work. But when you try to understand where that kid is at and help them see that they really are the only ones who have any control over what it is that they learned. Then it's incredibly empowering for them, and they can learn way above what what you thought was possible before.

And I just think that that is amazing and incredible and so much fun to watch happen.

Yeah. you're absolutely right on that, that that's exactly it.

You know, that that's the, that's the source of our joy, you know, and, and one of the things that's so fa so fascinates me is [00:16:00] that it gives us an insight into how, uh, students are making meaning of what we're doing and what is the bigger picture that they're seeing, um, in the, in their learning. And whether it's, you know, it's a.

Small grappling with, you know, a, a, a unique concept that they're working on, or whether it's more global and they're, they're trying to struggle with, you know, larger questions of, you know, how do we fix the environment? or, you know, what's gonna be the impact of, of particular policies or, uh, you know, what is the meaning in this literature and what do I get from this piece of literature?

That's what's so. Wonderful about teaching is that engagement and that meaning making. And oftentimes we have narrowed our focus to skill development and that not that skill development is bad. In fact, skill development is essential, but frankly, you may you develop skills outta making [00:17:00] meaning and the use of those skills.

Yeah. I, that is, um, that is a great place to end this conversation and begin another conversation later. Uh, because that idea of skill development, while essential is not the be all and end all, but it is so much treated like it is, that's what we test to, that's what we fund on And It is part of it, but it is not the bigger picture. So, uh, Shelly, this was awesome. Thank you so much. Last words before we sign off today?

thank you, Jethro. This is, uh, the work in UDL is is breakthrough work. Yeah. And, um, I'm excited that CAST is leading that work and, uh, I'm excited to be part of it. I feel honored to have been associated with the organization and, and been a supporter and a cheerleader all the years that I've been on the board.

Yeah. Well, thank you again so much for taking the time to be here. This was awesome. Thank you. Thank you.

you. [00:18:00]