Transformative Principal

TP Julie Ulstrup
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Jethro D. Jones: [00:00:00] Welcome to Transformative Principal. I'm your host, Jethro Jones. You can find me on all the socials at Jethro Jones. Transformative Principal is a proud member of the Be Podcast Network. You can hear all of our shows, one for every. Role you have in education@bepodcastnetwork.com. And today I am excited to have Julie Ostrip on the program.

She is the CEO of Women's Brilliance Collective and she helps people move from being an educator to doing something amazing. And there's a whole bunch more about her [00:01:00] that you should probably know. We're not gonna have time to get into all of it right this second, but she's won a ton of awards.

She was a top 1% photographer, and you may think that photographers don't make a lot of money, but she has been successful in that. And so we're gonna talk about your superpower. We're gonna talk about how you can transition from being an educator to doing something else. And the reason why we're talking about this, I'll get to that in a second.

Julie, welcome to the program. So glad to have you here.

Julie Ulstrup: Thanks, Jethro. I'm really excited to share what I've been doing and how I can serve and support your community.

Jethro D. Jones: So a lot of people have reached out to me because I left education in 2020 after the pandemic started, which was the best and worst possible timing ever. 'cause I was. Principal for the first part of the pandemic and then left. And thought I was gonna travel around the world Consulting. Boy, that sure didn't happen since everybody [00:02:00] was locked down.

But since then, a lot of people have reached out and said, Hey, Jethro, thinking about leaving, what should I do? And, so a lot of people have been asking this question, so I thought it'd be good to have someone who specializes in helping people transition out on the program. So we're gonna talk about a bunch of stuff and what, what's your big takeaway from our conversation today?

I.

Julie Ulstrup: Well, I think the big takeaway is that educators have so much to offer the community, and in addition to creating a business that has a large. Income. We can also increase our impact, our influence, and really change the world with mission-driven purpose-driven entrepreneurship in business. I think that as educators sometimes we get locked into this idea and it, it's a great idea because as educators we change the world.

And as business owners we can do that as well in lots and lots of ways.

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, [00:03:00] for sure. One of the things that I really appreciate from our conversation is you made me think about increase being. Three dimensional and that it's not just one aspect. So, we'll get to my interview here with Julie Srap in just a moment. Be sure to check, connect with her on LinkedIn which is in the show notes at Transformative principle.org, and we'll get to that interview in just a moment. (ad here)

Julie, one of the things that you talk about is helping educators find their zone of brilliance. So can you talk more about how you help educators do that and how you found yours? I.

Julie Ulstrup: Absolutely. So thank you for asking. This is one of my favorite things to talk about, the zone of brilliance and what I find with educators, and you probably know this as well. L is that we are often so focused on creating a vision and helping other people, you know, whether it's our school, [00:04:00] our school district, our students, our parents, you know, really bring to fruition their vision and their zone of growth and what does that look like?

And sometimes we forget that we have one too. And while education and teaching and all of the things that go along with it. Our magical and amazing. We also have a very clear and definite zone of brilliance. And the way that I help people find that, well, let, let me quote Napoleon Hill. He says, every achievement, big or small is the result of a definite chief aim.

So when we look at like, what is r. Definite chief aim, what is our intention? What is our compass? And the way that I help educators find that out is by asking a series of questions, talking about values, you know, what are our values and, and how do we [00:05:00] really reflect those values in our daily activities?

So it's, you know, what we think about our actions and the results that we get. So.

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about what, what those questions are and how you help someone find those out. And if you want to feel free to ask me some of those questions and we can, you, you can show how you find someone's zone of brilliance. I think I know what mine is, but you know, I'd love your perspective also.

So what are some of the things you ask?

Julie Ulstrup: I love this. Okay, so let's just start with, share with me. Three adjectives that you would use to describe yourself.

Jethro D. Jones: Curious, friendly, and, scattered.

Julie Ulstrup: Okay, I'm gonna write these down. Curious, friendly, and scattered. And what would a friend [00:06:00] say?

Jethro D. Jones: I think a friend would say that I ask good questions.

Julie Ulstrup: So you're, so you're curious.

Jethro D. Jones: Yep. I think a friend would say that. I am supportive and there for them when they need me to be. And then probably the other thing is that what people say often is that I get a lot done and they're amazed at what I produce.

Julie Ulstrup: I love that. I love that. And so let, let me ask another question. What. How do you spend your time? If you looked at your time during the day, what are the three big ways that you spend your time

Jethro D. Jones: In reality or when I'm being productive.

Julie Ulstrup: in a, in an ideal world? No. In reality, how do you spend your time?

Jethro D. Jones: So I, I spend a lot of time like doing stuff like this podcasting and interviewing people. [00:07:00] I really enjoy that a lot, which is why I've kept doing it for over a decade. One of the other things that I spend a lot of time doing is thinking about things and that. That doesn't really look like work, but, but I do spend a lot of time thinking about things.

And then the third thing, I'm just going with three here. So,

Julie Ulstrup: Yes, Uhhuh.

Jethro D. Jones: So the third thing that I spend a lot of time doing is c, connecting with others. Either reading social media, texting people. Messages, things like that. Those are probably the, the big three. And I think that that's pretty, pretty standard.

Julie Ulstrup: Okay, this is good. Now, final question. It's a hard one to, and you can be. As specific or as, I mean obviously this is going out to the world, so this is usually, I do this. It's a very it's [00:08:00] private, it's a private interview,

Jethro D. Jones: I wear it all on my sleeve, so it's all good.

Julie Ulstrup: Well, I'm just, I'm, I'm prefacing this because the question is, and this is a big one for people, especially for educators, how do you spend your money.

Jethro D. Jones: Hmm. Um, I spend my money on mostly my family or improving myself, so I. I try to put a lot of resources towards taking care of the family, and then the other thing is opportunities to make myself better and improve myself.

Julie Ulstrup: Okay. So when we, when we look at these things, we look at the way you see yourself, curious, curious, friendly, and scattered, and then a friend sees you, they're, they're a very aligned there. Curious. I I changed that out. 'cause you said that, that you said that you ask a lot of questions, [00:09:00] supportive and that you're there for them.

~So that's, you know, that's Or, and I'm sorry. And productive. Productive is what you said, ~and then in your spending your time. So the two biggest ways, A lot of times~ we ~that we value this. But we do something else. And I think as educators especially, it's really easy to get caught up in all of the things that we're supposed to do.

And I think that one of the beautiful things about being an entrepreneur, A CEO, a leader of a company, is that we get to choose how we spend our time, right? We get to choose how we want to be in our zone of brilliance. So what you're saying is you spend your time podcasting and interviewing, thinking about things.

You know, when you said thinking about things, that reminded me of something that I read that the, the great thought leaders, I mean like Isaac Newton and throughout history have all spent a lot of time what looks like [00:10:00] doing nothing. Right. And, and that's the part I think that you're referring to, the thinking.

Then connecting on social media, right? Those are so those are your, the ways you spend your time. That shows huge, you know, part of your values are huge and then you spend your money on your family and self-improvement. So when you look at those things all together, compiling all of those, where do you think that?

Your zone of brilliance is given that information, how you spend your time, how you spend your money, the way you see yourself and the way others see you.

Jethro D. Jones: Hmm, this, this is good because I have been thinking about this a lot. One of those things where it doesn't look like I'm doing anything, but this has been weighing on me heavily and I would think that my, I. Based on those things, my zone of brilliance is really in helping [00:11:00] people, helping people get their, their big.

Impact or their big vision out to other people, that that is what I have found. And in fact, just this morning, one of my friends reached out and said, Jethro, I need, I am, I'm doing this thing where I, I wanna start a podcast but I don't know where to start. And I figured of all people, you would have the answer to that.

And like, it just felt so good. To hear that and to, to see what I think I'm good at, highlighted by someone else besides me, and for her to say, I know you can help me with it. How do we do it? And like that, I, I felt like I was, I really respect her. I really appreciate her friendship, and I felt like it was an honor to be able to [00:12:00] help her do this.

And it wasn't like. It wasn't a, oh, how can I make money doing this? It was like, oh, what a great opportunity to be able to serve someone in this way. And, and that was a really cool feeling. So, shout out to you, Tara, if you're listening. She's probably not, but it, it was awesome to get that call this morning.

Julie Ulstrup: So, so this is, this is great like that and, and for people who are listening to the podcast, I'm nodding my head, I'm vigorously saying yes, yes, yes. As Jeff talking about all of this, helping others get their impact out in the world. And when we talk about growing a business. It's about impact, influence, increase, and income.

And those are the ways that we live in our zone of brilliance. And you saying that you feel really good that she was, that you're a resource that you're helping, that's your [00:13:00] zone of brilliance. You know? We know that when we feel it inside, you know, when we feel that, oh my gosh, it feels so good to help others.

And I think that's one of the things that sometimes entrepreneurship and business gets like a, a bad rap because it's like, oh, well, you know, you're making money. And, and that's a, it's, it's okay to make money. It's okay to make good money. And I think that's a place that sometimes educators especially can get caught up.

And really shifting that like I serve, I serve in a really big way. That means I also deserve to receive. And so there are the mechanical pieces that we talk about. When I say mechanical, I mean, you know, business strategy and processes and things like that. And then there's also the mindset pieces of what does that mean and how does [00:14:00] that look and. Is this what I want? What like, does this light me up? Does this light me up? Right? And helping people find their zone of brilliance help lights me up, so,

Jethro D. Jones: yeah, totally. And and what's so good about what you said there is that a lot of educators struggle with this idea of going from a. Educational institution where it doesn't matter how hard or how little you work, you get paid the same as everybody else. The value that you give, the very real issue in education is that you give a ton of value and you don't see the rewards of that for possibly and quite often.

Most often years and years and years Now, we all like to see that little. Light bulb go off in a kid's eyes when they're, when we teach 'em something. And that's great, but then the real payoff comes when they come back 20 years later and say, Hey, you helped me in this [00:15:00] particular way. Thank you so much, and I appreciate it.

And that, that is a really powerful payoff. But it takes so long to get there and, and kids don't realize the impact you have on them until, until much later. And so. It's difficult to make that mindset, mindset shift to be in business, whether you're starting your own thing or you're going to work somewhere else and have that, that dynamic change.

How do you help educators with changing that dynamic specifically?

Julie Ulstrup: It's really interesting because a lot of what I do when I work with educators is, you know, what, what is it that they want? What lights them up, how they're gonna do that, and then the compensation piece, and that is a piece that. People, you know, to your point, struggle with educators struggle and, and people who are not educators often struggle with it as well.

[00:16:00] What I will do sometimes is I will have that, I will ask them, and because Jethro, I know you know that you have advanced degrees as well, so I'll say, well, how many years experience do you have and how much education do you have? And, you know, what was the call, what was the investment, what was your investment in that?

Right? And you can bring it into real time dollars and, you know, we don't necessarily, I don't necessarily have people, you know, create an accounting sheet and a profit loss on their education or things like that, but I think about, I, I help them to think about other people in the world and what they're compensated for, what they do.

And, and help them build that sense of believing that they have something that is valuable, which most educators, we do believe that, that we offer a great deal of value. And I would say also that [00:17:00] most educators believe that they're not paid what they're worth. And I think that's a common, a common and chronic problem in our culture.

And so getting people to shift that, it often takes a while to shift that mindset, but really reinforcing having conversations, what, you know, asking an educator, well, what would that be worth to you if what you did for, you know. Sarah, when she was 14 and came to you in a, what, what would you pay for that as a parent?

What was the value that you offered? So yeah, using lots of examples and lots of reinforcement and lot because it's, it's a, it's a big shift in our culture for sure.

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, and you know, it's interesting, my wife was, the Olympics just finished when, as we're recording this, you're hearing this a little bit later, but Olympic related news. She saw an article about how [00:18:00] much countries the government, four countries pay gold medalists, and one one weightlifter, I believe in Indonesia.

Scott paid $350,000 or something for getting a gold medal. And I will try to put that link in the show notes if you're interested. But what, what I find fascinating there is that as she was explaining how much these different gold medals, Scott, I was immediately putting it into this value exchange of like, would that have paid for all of the training and process and time and energy that you spent.

To do all that work leading up to that point. And. Maybe $350,000 for a weightlifter. Maybe that would work, but probably not. That's probably, they've probably invested more than that over the course of their lifetime to get to that elite level. For the United States athletes, they were more in the like [00:19:00] $37,000 range, if I remember correctly, for getting a gold medal.

And there's no way that they. Paid for their investment as it were in, in their training and, and what they're doing. And so. Like as you, as you mentioned, you can't just like say you have all these degrees and therefore your value is X, Y, or z because it is always more subjective than that. Right? And, and if you do things just for the financial reward, like that's not everything that is there.

And that's why I think this idea of zone of brilliance is so important because it, it shows like. I, I I'm trying to not say a thing that I don't wanna say, but I'm just gonna say it now. You don't wanna say, this is so great, I would do this for free. But at the same time, that's kind of the mentality you have to have because there are going to be challenging times that come in where you're gonna feel like you're not getting what you're worth and other times where you get way more than you [00:20:00] think you're worth.

And it's, it's wonderful and people are happy to pay that and, and so. There's this like wishy-washy, weird kind of relationship with it that it's not like it's a totally fact-based, logical process, but it's also not a hundred percent emotional. It's some balance of those two. What would you add to that, Julie?

Julie Ulstrup: That's a great, great synopsis of what we're talking about. I think the other thing that I would add to that is that it's not necessarily linear. There's this, when you talk about impact and I talk about increase and, and if you could see me, you know, I'm, I'm making my hands larger and an increase.

Is three dimensional, right? It's three dimensional. So it's increase in our income, impact and influence, and it's also our [00:21:00] own, own self. You know, who are we becoming? And, and that's, that's next level. But who are, who are we becoming? Who, who are we in the world? And, and then it goes back to self value of, you know, well, who am I to be compensated this much?

Who are you not to be compensated this much in all of those areas?

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. And, and that comes back to this idea of your identity and who you are. And too often in the world right now, we focus identity on your sexual orientation and your race and maybe your religion or your political affiliation, but that is so limiting and so corrosive. To limit yourself to those definitions.

It just makes me sick that people do that, and I was guilty of this myself when I was [00:22:00] pulled outta my school as a principal. Six weeks before the last day of school. I became severely depressed because I saw myself as a principal and I didn't see myself. I didn't identify as anything more than that. And so when that identity was threatened, then it was.

It was very depressing. It was very difficult to go through, and it was a total lie because I'm so much more than that and, and I, and I just thought that's, that my identity was so built on that it was just a total waste and I. As I've been working on that and processing through that and trying to define who I am in, in a more healthy, holistic way that's not narrowly focused on my job or my career or my political affiliation or anything like that, then I'm finding that.

Work is just something that I do. And when I focus more on who I'm becoming, like you're saying [00:23:00] I find a lot more happiness and joy in the things that I'm doing on a daily basis. And it's way more powerful than than any, any financial thing I could receive because I'm, I'm focusing on that idea of who I'm becoming.

Does that, does that make sense? What would you add there?

Julie Ulstrup: Yes, a hundred percent. It makes sense. And, and when I think about this very specifically for you and what you just shared with, you know, your story about being a principal, you've always been probably at some level helping others get their impact out in the world.

Jethro D. Jones: Mm-Hmm.

Julie Ulstrup: Did that as a principle and that, you know, sometimes things like that will change however.

To your point, when we get to the depth and the core of who we are and how we help and how we serve, that's the depth of humanity. You know, how [00:24:00] we serve. I believe that we are here on the planet. To, to serve. And that comes from a very deep place within us. And then we're here to learn. And that's expansive and that's growing.

And I, yeah, I'm putting my arms out, you know, making like the big, the big world. But it's that depth of our experience as well as the breadth of who we can impact. And I get chills when I say that. So, yeah.

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. I, I do too. And that, that is so powerful because when I think about my life and the way that you just described, that I help people make an impact that like, okay, I can see where I've been doing that my whole entire life. And that's, that's really powerful. And it's like, oh, that's really who I am. I was, I was talking with my wife the other day and she has always done.

Crafty things. And it just happened that we were talking about different machines that she has used to do those things. And so the first [00:25:00] one was a cricket, well, the first one was scissors and paper and just cutting things out. The next one was a cricket. And then after that she got a silhouette machine, and then she got a glow forge.

And all these things go back to the same idea or principle that she creates things. Out of something else. That's what she does, that she creates physical three dimensional things out of something else. And by thinking about it like that this was just a random conversation, Julie, and it was so amazing.

Julie Ulstrup: I, yeah.

Jethro D. Jones: And that it was like, oh. That is who my wife is. She does this over and over again, and I look at my life and I'm like, what are the things that I keep doing no matter where I'm at, no matter what my job is, what are the things that I keep doing? And one of the things that I, that I didn't bring up before, but that relates to this, is that.

I'm a problem solver that I see problems and I go out and I solve them. [00:26:00] And the big problem that I think I help people with the most is I help them get their big ideas out into the world. And, and so being able to look at it from that lens, I'm like, oh, I can trace through my whole life all these things I've done and see all these different ways where I've done that.

And that's, that's really powerful. All right. I wanna shift the conversation just a little bit though. So, I wanna talk about how you've seen educators take their skills of being an educator into a non education role. Or how do they take their skills from being a teacher or a principal or a counselor like you were, and do those skills in a different arena.

'cause one of the challenges we face is. It's not transferable to teach 30 kids something every 45 minutes to like working in an office. It feels like it's not transferable. So what are some [00:27:00] ways you've seen educators leverage their teaching skills?

Julie Ulstrup: So, so I've got like a couple pieces to, to kind of fill. Out the answer to that, one of the things is, is that teachers do have a lot of transferable skills. A lot of times they believe that they don't. In the example of teaching a classroom that could be teaching a, you know, having a presentation. And teaching people a new method for doing something or, or having a sales presentation in front of a class of, you know, 10, 20, or 30 people, you know, a lot of people are terrified to get up and speak in front of a group.

Teachers do it all the time. Right. I, I tell one of my clients all the time, I'm like, you were a kindergarten teacher. I'm like, you were in sales every single day that you walked into the classroom. [00:28:00] Any

Jethro D. Jones: so than most people.

Julie Ulstrup: yeah. Every educator does that. So there are lots and lots of skills that are transferable and.

Figuring out the parts that you really love. Again, because when we act in our zone of brilliance, and when we're saying, you know, what is it that I love and I'm, I'm gonna get to a really, you know, a really specific example. But one of the other things that you brought up was, you know. What your wife does with her crafting, and then what you do in helping others get their impact out in the world.

On my YouTube channel, I have a I feel like it was, it was kind of a, a big video for you, but it, I talk about like, you know, that Simon Sinek is wrong. We don't start with why. We start with what. And, and even deeper than that, we start with who, and I've, I've got one for that too, who we're becoming, but we start with what, what is like, so what is [00:29:00] standing in front of a classroom?

What is that? It's teaching. It could, there's also a sales part. There's negotiation, there's so many different pieces of it. Okay, so one of the biggest transformational things that I've seen, and I don't know if this would be the biggest, but I've got a client who helps people build other schools. She helps people build schools, and so, and, and her clients, they're starting to work with her ~at, at a,~ so she, she sells ~six, I'm sorry,~ five figure programs.

So that's 10,000, 20,000, $30,000 program. That's a big shift in her identity of who she is. also have educator friends who, you know, one was an art teacher and, and I started my career as an entrepreneur, as a [00:30:00] photographer, and I always had the belief in my mind, educators don't make a lot of money either.

Do photographers. My friend who used to be an art teacher in, in fact, I did make quite a bit of money. I do make quite a bit of money as a photographer. Just to be really clear my friend became a sculptor and she had tremendous financial success very quickly. And, and in addition to that. She helped make people live really joyful lives and, and there's an impact with that.

There's a real feeling of satisfaction and a sense of self. Like, you know, I help people really love their home or their yard With me, with my portrait work, I did not have the connection of how I could make an impact and be a woman of increase. As a photographer, I was like, how, how does that even work?

[00:31:00] And when I realized that, that's when it really, you know, helped me get aligned, like you said, helping others get their impact out in the world. The thing that I realized about myself is I have always. Seeing things in people that they don't necessarily see, and I help them see that in themselves. And so yeah, those are just a couple of examples of, of different people in different ways that, you know, EDU educators can do anything (ad here)

Jethro D. Jones: I, I totally agree with that. And they really can because they, they have these experiences and so much interaction with other human beings. More than probably any other profession in the world. And no matter what you're doing, you're interacting with other humans and you're like, there's just some really deep, powerful things that people learn and experience that, [00:32:00] you know, you just, you just can't get in any other way other than by experiencing it, you know?

And, and those are really valuable insights. Okay. What other questions should I be asking right now? Because I, I feel like I've, I've asked a lot and we've gone in different directions, but what else should we be talking about right now? Or rather, what else is on your mind that you feel like needs to come out?

Julie Ulstrup: Thank you for asking that. That's great. I, and I have a journalism background, by the way, my undergraduate degree in journalism, and that's always a question that I ask and I like, what else should we be talking about? What else is there? I think there's the, you know, one of the things that happens with educators, there's, you know, there's the mindset piece.

There's the, the really, the shifting of identity. And being a person of value who serves and deserves. So there's, there's all of that [00:33:00] really rich how do I wanna put it, that, that humanistic part of being an entrepreneur that oftentimes I think people don't think about when they're thinking about being an entrepreneur, a business person.

You know, sometimes there's the. The impression that people who have businesses are greedy or are this or that? No, we can build mission-driven purpose-driven businesses, and I believe it's a way to change the world when we do things from a really heart-centered way, from a way that feels really powerful.

And there are some really. I guess like nuts and bolts, basic skills of how do you create mission, vision, and values for your business, like starting with a really strong foundation in your business so that it doesn't, it's gonna be hard sometimes, but it doesn't have to feel like a [00:34:00] grind. And so that's what I really help people do.

I help people with the. Kind of like the logistics things. Like what is it that I need to know about a business? What's the best, you know, avenue for me in social media? What's the best, you know, and, and do I enjoy doing it? And if I don't enjoy doing it, well let's figure out a way. 'cause there are some things that, you know, you have, you have, you have to help.

If you're gonna help others get their impact out in the world, you got to find a way to connect with the others who connect with you. So. Finding a, a blend of those things. I feel like it's like a zen a nn diagram. Ha. A Venn diagram.

Jethro D. Jones: one.

Julie Ulstrup: A Venn diagram. So you can have your NN diagram.

Jethro D. Jones: That's right. A, a Venn diagrammed to get to Zen. I like that. That's, that sounds like a good show title by the way.

Julie Ulstrup: yeah. There we go.

Jethro D. Jones: Ven two Zen. Okay, there we go. We'll see if that makes the cut or not. So the last question I ask Julie is [00:35:00] what is, and like, keep in mind where we're at here. So, as I mentioned in the introduction, the reason why I wanted to talk to you is because so many people are thinking about leaving education and are afraid of what it looks like on the other side, that they're nervous about doing something different.

So I think, so the question I usually ask is, what is one thing that a principal, a principal listening right now can do to be a Transformative leader like you? But I'm gonna adjust that a little bit and I'm gonna say, what is one thing that someone can do to find their zone of brilliance on their own?

What should they sit down and do between now and one week from today to, to get more clear on that?

Julie Ulstrup: So I first, the first thing I would say is I would say, do it before you go to bed tonight, or, you know, in the next 24 hours. And I would, I would sit down for five minutes [00:36:00] and I would use this, this quote by Sarah Blakely that, that I got when I order a pair of Spanx. That says the biggest risk is not taking a risk. And, and journal about that for two minutes and then take another two minutes journal about the, an affirmation that I use every day. So this is something that, you know, all of the listeners can use. I serve. I deserve. And what does that mean? So it's, it is about our, our our comfort zone and expanding that comfort zone.

That's the, you know, biggest risk is not taking a risk. And then it's also about you know, really deserving. So, so being expansive, you know, being a person of increase in our deserving as well as our [00:37:00] willingness to take a risk for something that we believe and something that we know can make an impact in the world.

Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, that's, that's awesome. Thank you so much for that. If people want to connect with you, what's the best way for them to get with you, Julie?

Julie Ulstrup: LinkedIn is a great way to connect with me. And I think we're gonna put my link in the show notes to set up a call. I'd love to just, you know, I'm not gonna. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna help you, help you see, is this something that even piques your interest? Does it sound terrifying? You know, what are you good at?

Just help answer for the listeners, like, how, how can I support you? What does it look like for you?

Jethro D. Jones: Very good. Well, thank you so much for being part of Transformative principle today. I enjoyed this conversation. I hope people will check out your [00:38:00] YouTube videos, which we have in the show notes, and connect with you deeper. Thanks so much for being here.

Julie Ulstrup: Thank you. It has been a pleasure and so much fun to get to know you.