Transformative Principal

TP Kevin Stoller - SCF
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[00:00:00]

Welcome to Transformative Principal. I'm your host, Jethro Jones. You can find me on all the social networks at Jethro Jones and Transformative. Principal is a proud member of the BE Podcast Network and you can check out all of our shows@bepodcastnetwork.com. We got about 50 now, which is kind of crazy.

I. It just keeps growing, which is super exciting. Today I am honored to have on the program Kevin Stoller, who has been [00:01:00] on the show a couple times before on episode 2 91 and episode 5 25. And today we are talking about the second Class Foundation, which is a nonprofit that he is running that is doing some really cool stuff.

And we're gonna dive in there. Kevin, welcome and thanks for being joining Transformative Principle yet again.

Jethro. It's always great to spend time with you and hand you tell, say those numbers. I can't believe how many episodes you've done. Kudos to you.

I know it's crazy. You're gonna be episode, what are you, episode six, I don't know, six 70 or something like that.

that's insane. As like a fellow podcaster, we just hit 200 on ours and

Yeah, you're coming along, man. You're doing great. So, it is crazy and it's so rewarding because I get to talk to people like you about things that we're gonna talk about today and I'm just so grateful for that. Before we get started though, I would suggest if you haven't yet to click on the link in [00:02:00] the show notes and go watch the video that's linked there on second Class Foundation's website, and you can check it out and watch what we're gonna talk about because.

I think you can listen to our conversation before you watch the video, but watching the video will give you a little more context into it. So, anyway, good stuff. Second class foundation.org. And we're gonna get to my interview with Kevin here in just a moment.

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So one of the things that I've been really harping on lately is this this idea that we have this thing that we say in education all the time that safety is our number one priority. And I think that's baloney Safety is the. Cost of doing business because it doesn't matter what we teach our kids, if they're not safe to begin with, and if we can't trust that they're going to be safe, then it doesn't even matter.

So I don't think that safety is our number one priority. It is the price we pay [00:03:00] to participate in this thing of taking care of other people's children. What's your response to that?

I've had similar that because I mean, whether it was covid, school shootings, things like that. And you always hear the superintendent and you know, and I think you and I even talked about when we were at a SA of like the number one thing that they say is keeping 'em awake is safety. Safety and security.

And, I agree. Yeah. That's the basic, like, that is the most basic. Like if you just look at like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, like those are the basics, but really it, I. If that was our number one concern, one everything would be different. But I also think it would be a horrible learning environment if safety was the number one concern it would be, it would be all about just making sure that nobody gets hurt.

There's nothing wrong. Like there's nothing like you, you would have, like, they would feel even more like prisons than they are now. When you really start looking that at that

and no intellectual risk either would happen if that were [00:04:00] the case.

Correct. Yep. So I do think there's this acknowledgement of being like, safety is not number one concern.

These schools exist because they are here to serve the purpose. And I do think this is probably the biggest thing we need to answer as like communities and as a country is what is the purpose of school now? Like it, we know what it was when the education system was created. It was to build up a labor force and it was to basically like teach them how to participate in society.

Is that the same answer now? Or is it that we wanna produce what's the goal? Because I, I. I, I think as parents, as communities, we need to have that conversation. What is the purpose school? And you know, there's different answers now and I think that's why we're seeing a lot of conflict.

Yeah. Yeah. And there's been so much that has happened over the last little while that has made people think that our purpose for education has shifted. I. Quite a bit [00:05:00] into things that that aren't as important or as as valuable. So, I wanna talk a little bit about your second class foundation and in this docuseries, what we showed them, and the reason why we started talking about safety is because the video that it starts with, do I feel safe in the school and.

Part of the challenge is that there's so many different ways to talk about safety. And safety has become this buzzword that means so many different things that it's difficult to, to really nail down what it is that we're talking about. But then the video goes on to show that this is like physical safety where the building could literally collapse as part of the building Did almost 20 years ago, and no structural improvements have been made, tell us about this docuseries and what the point is that you're trying to make with it.

Yeah. So let me set this up a little bit because this first episode highlights a school in Idaho that [00:06:00] to your point it's crumbling, like you're just literally watching it crumble. But. That is not the main point of the docuseries of why we did this. This is coming out of a nonprofit second class foundation where the state admission is the goal is to improve education through the use of media and storytelling.

This is a heartbreaking story. This is a story that is happening right in front of our eyes. That, and I, I. I just hope this gets resolved so that it doesn't turn into a tragedy story. But what we've asked this amazing film crew that we have, because is how do we produce entertaining content, like a really entertaining show that also.

Supports this movement that our education system needs to be improved and that there are ways we are already improving them and. The goal of this is not to appeal to somebody who would normally [00:07:00] like be in the walls of education and like would normally watch like an education documentary. This is really meant to, if you're sitting down at the end of the day and you're flipping through Netflix and trying to figure out what to watch, we wanna produce content that is at that level and that level of storytelling and character development.

This just happened to be the first one that we felt like we have to capture this story right now, but we have like six other schools around the country that are at completely different ends of the spectrum that we wanna highlight just to show people what's going on in schools today. And this one it's a tough one.

I don't know if I would've picked this would be the first one, but it is. Unbelievable story and like heartbreaking to watch it, to know that this is happening not only at this school, but really all over the country.

Well, and this is the thing that's so fascinating. If you're in education, [00:08:00] you can say. I totally get it, and I can see how this is happening because we've probably all been there in these outdated schools that are literally falling apart and crumbling. But if you're not in education, you look at that and you say, well, in the world is going on, I.

Why aren't they doing something to fix this? Why aren't they building a new school? And so this is one of those threads you could pull is about how education is funded and how we decide whether or not to build new schools and how schools get money to build new schools and all that kind of stuff, which is a whole other can of worms that is.

Complicating the problem that exists. And you mentioned that's in Idaho, that's one of the lower funded states in the nation for education. And so it brings up more than just a question of is this building safe to inhabit? There's a lot more to it.

There is a lot more to it and as like working with the film crew and trying to [00:09:00] tell this story. And I guess the first thing, like to set this up is the series is not meant to be heartbreaking. The series is really meant to be inspirational. It's, we have ones that are gonna like episodes every week 'cause we have a whole 10 10 episode season.

It kinda mapped out. And there's gonna be humor and there's some like really inspirational things, but when we look at it is like every good story has kind of that hero's mission and they have this thing where you have to start with the problem. So this one sounds horrible and it is depressing and you know, in there, but.

It's the first chapter of the story. And when we go through here, you're gonna see things that are Transformative, that things that are really changing and going, and we hope that Valley View Elementary, that we highlight here also, we can document their evolution as well. So, but it lands on, if I come back to this episode in particular, it brings up a very [00:10:00] deep complex situation here where it is really easy to say, well, come on, why are you, why didn't you guys just pass the bonds so you guys can build a new school?

And this is where the complexity gets in. And the, and as the film crew and I were talking, we're like, this is not about the community. This is not about tearing out, tearing apart the community and saying like, and blaming other people in there. They passed 54%, voted to fund a new school. I. So this is not about a local community not wanting to support it.

54% in any other election in any part of the country is typically considered like a runaway victory. In Idaho, there is a law that you have to have 66.7% to approve it, and that's just not realistic in this day and age. To get really that type of approval on anything. So, so I gave a lot of credit to the administration of this schools, is [00:11:00] that yes, they wanna solve their problem, but they also wanna solve the problem, the wider problem.

And in this case it's simply, it's a state law at Idaho that they're trying to switch.

Yeah. Yeah. It's really fascinating because different states have different laws around education, which is the beauty of how our country was set up, is that you can recognize that Idaho may need a different approach to education than New York does and that's beneficial until it's not right.

And especially as we are now preparing. Students for a global workforce. There are some things where it's like, oh, maybe we should rethink how some of these things are done and have some different ideas about that. What are some of your thoughts about how that problem specifically could be solved?

Yeah. For us, this is more about like showing people what's going on. I mean really [00:12:00] that even the name of a, what we show them, I mean, this is really to prompt these community discussions. I 100% agree with you. Like there's, the beauty in the system in the United States is that we kind of, we have 50 experiments going on. Right. Like we, we have 50 different, very unique cultures and desires and needs, and I think it's one of the coolest things that we have is that we can actually look at different systems and say hey, what are they doing over there? Oh, well that's really interesting. Like, is there something that we should be taking from there?

Or should we learn and be like, oh, they, they did that and that did not work, so now we don't have to do it. Versus having one. One big experiment at saying like, this is our one shot. We have to get everyone a hundred percent on the same page together. So, so, yeah I agree with you. I always look at that.

I live in Arizona now, which is very different from where I grew up in the Midwest of Chicago and time in Ohio Arizona. When I came out here, I'm like, what is going on? I don't. I don't understand [00:13:00] how the schools operate here. Like it is all open enrollment. It's a very mature charter school state. The money follows the kid everywhere they go.

And I would say there's a lot of pros from this system and there's a lot of things that like that they couldn't that. Happened that I don't know if they intended to. But I totally agree. Like we wanna be able to spotlight this and be able to show what's going on around the country, not with the idea of we know what's right, but we really need to prompt this discussion.

A lot of people have only been in school when they were kids or if their parents may be just limited of just like things and it is completely changed. There are so many things that are different and it should be different. I mean, we don't want it to be exactly the same, right?

Right. Yeah. And that is like I said, the beauty of our system is that it doesn't have to be the same from New York to California. There can be local communities saying this is what we really need. So let's talk about [00:14:00] the rest of these, this docuseries. What are the other episodes that you're going to highlight?

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Yeah. So when we brought in this film crew who I just cannot, like, I, I cannot say enough good things about them. You know, like we, we evaluate when we looked at who do we wanna hire and who do we want to partner with? They not only have like the skills, like when you watch that, I mean, the shots that they're getting are like, they're taught, like they are.

The highest level. I mean, the drone shots are getting outta the city and over, over the school, and then being able to capture people's emotions. They are so good at what they do, but what they're even better at is that they care about this too. when I brought them in and tell 'em like, Hey, this is what we're looking to do, they started interviewing and researching around the country and trying to find like, where are some really good stories? Where are some good characters that we could highlight in there? And we came back and there was really a, like our top 10 list of like, man, [00:15:00] if we can get, if we can follow these people who are out and really get like at the heart of what they're about, and it's a range from.

Teachers to community members, to school leaders, to po. There's one they found there's a politician. But it's really looking at more like the characters behind any type of this change maker mentality and education. And and we want to capture this and we wanna do it. And why I asked you to be on here is like we.

I need more money, as simple as that. We need we need more help, whether it's money or connections or ways to do this. I. I think it's one of the most important things we can do right now in education. And you know, like I've been working in the industry for 15 years now. There's a lot of passionate people, there's a lot of things that are improving.

We're trying a lot of experiments, but I think what we're missing is pulling in. The communities, the general public. And that's really what the [00:16:00] purpose of this docuseries is trying to meet people where they're at that normally are not thinking about schools. They don't re you know, like it, it's just not at top of mind for them.

But I always look at 'em like cultural changes are almost always sparked. By entertainment. I mean, if you look at what Al Gore did with his documentary, that completely changed the trajectory of how climate change was viewed. You look at even like Will and Grace and what the perceptions of the GLBT community like.

When that series started versus when it ran its course. And I'm not saying that was the only determinant, but entertainment matters. Even as more on the fun side of like Chip and Joan Anna Gaines with their fixer upper TV show. They have brought like shiplap. Interior design to homes all over the country.

And that's really the focus of this is how do we do this in an entertaining way? Because right now, the way schools are perceived in the public, whether it's in the media, it's typically in a [00:17:00] negative fashion. It's typically knocking the tea chairs. Profession, or we're talking about tragedies of school shootings or or burning books or school board fights.

It's almost always negative. And if we can tell stories that are really compelling I think we can change that narrative.

Yeah. And so what kind of stories do you need to tell for that to happen? Because the salacious things are the things that sell, the scandals, the pain, the suffering. That's what people are drawn to. Even this Docus, this episode of the docuseries is about a school that is literally crumbling and right before our eyes, and they're desperately trying to get a school bond passed so they can build a new one.

What, how are you gonna tell these stories in a positive light that focuses and helps people see things differently?

Yeah. That's why I am so happy about the film crew that we found. They they are at the heart [00:18:00] of it trying to find when they do this, trying to find the stories. They're trying to find the stories and that really resonate with people. You know, and it, and we're really getting inspiration from a few different sources around this.

Like even things like, welcome to Resom, the docuseries with Ryan Reynolds and Ryan. Olney, who they bought a soccer team. Like I, I'm not a I don't even, I don't like soccer. But I watch that and you get the, I mean, it is all about character development. And in the same line too, one of the inspirations I.

I'm assuming you've seen it but I shouldn't make the assumption of the documentary most likely to succeed that made its rounds background. You know, like, I mean, it's crazy almost like 10 years ago now. But that's kind of at the heart of where we're. We're aiming for. It's those really human interests, compelling characters and with a really amazing film crew that knows how to tell a story and put it together.

And it that's where we're aiming right now.

[00:19:00] And I think one of the ones that I'm following closely is the story of the Greater Dayton School in Dayton, Ohio. Have you heard of this one?

No, I haven't. All right. This is what I love talking to people too, 'cause I'm learning about a lot more.

So this school is a K eight school and they are investing something crazy, like $300,000 or something per student to develop a program for them where they are gonna keep track of these kids and stay in touch with them until they're 27.

Oh

to make sure that they are successfully launched and successful adults. And it is a private school, but it is all scholarship based. So, it is specifically targeted towards low income families and it providing tons of wraparound services to support them and help them. And really a, in my opinion, a showcase of what good philanthropic dollars can do.

That is going to pay huge dividends down the [00:20:00] line. I mean, these kids are gonna be connected to the school for their whole lives. If they last till they're 27, they're gonna stay connected forever, I'm sure, and continue giving back themselves and continue promoting the ideas that are there and sharing their success stories.

And it's gonna take a long time before you start seeing the. Long-term results. But but I've had AJ stick the the pri founding principal there on the show a couple times to talk about what they're doing. And I'm just gonna keep interviewing him as long as I do this podcast because it's cool to hear the stories of what they're doing and how it's working.

Yeah. And that's the thing that's hard about education. And when we looked at this, we're like, well, how do we do it? Because it is slow. It's this you, it's a slow investment, this patience on the results. Even though there's this like need to act with urgency on things. You are like where?

We're talking about lives of kids here. You know, it's like there's things that happen that you need that longit [00:21:00] that longevity to it to try to see like what really worked and what didn't work, and be able to learn from it. And it's hard because we just have to be patient in some cases. And as we're looking at, even like these schools for we're doing these docuseries.

It doesn't happen fast. Like let's say they even passed that bond, it's gonna be like two or three years in, in a best case scenario before they actually have a new school there. So it is gonna be those slow things that you, that happen, but that's why we feel like it's really important to be weaving multiple stories together because there may be.

Six months where there's not a lot of movement in something. And to be able to document and tell that, and to be able to capture that that's where we start looking at at this kind of wider range of the series to be able to pull people in and do that. But yeah it is one of those things where it's like we, [00:22:00] we all, I feel like the people in education, we recognize there's a problem.

There's things that we're working on, but it is all this of like, you just don't know.

Yeah.

You just don't know. You know, like I, I feel like our parent generation is always like, we know our kids are gonna go to therapy. We just don't know what they're gonna go to therapy for. Like, we're, we know we're screwing them up some way.

Yeah. That's so fascinating. So I've been trying really hard to think more long-term lately and not think about tomorrow, the next day, but think about next year or the year after. And so I recently started this. Project called A Decade, never to be Forgotten about making the next decade the most amazing one yet.

And and so what's really interesting to me is as I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking about like, what do I want this to look like in 10 years? And that is exceptionally hard to do because it's so hard to predict the future. Nobody can do it. We try in a lot of different ways, but you have [00:23:00] to recognize that.

Things take time and they build slowly. And in, in our fast paced 24 hour news cycle world, we want results immediately. We want things to happen immediately and all of that. And it just, it. Life is different and it takes time and you gotta be patient with it. And it's sometimes really difficult to do that.

So, so I commend you for en engaging in this work that you're right. By the time that Bond gets passed ki and get the building gets built, kids who are currently there likely won't be at that school, which is kind of wild to think about.

Yeah, for sure. Yep. And I think that's part of yeah, part of the challenge here is that the windows of time where people are interested in schools, they can kind of come and go like I think of like, my kid, I have three kids and you know, like. The elementary school was like a big part of our life at one point, but now [00:24:00] we're kind of past that phase and and then you think of like just the rest of the community too, of yeah.

They may not have ever had kids in that school or it's been 50 years since they've stepped foot in that school. So it is a, it's a tough community problem that is. Gonna resolve itself in some way. It's just a matter of, like, unfortunately, to your point of like the way our society is now it's usually it takes an emergency to do it.

And I hope we don't see that

yeah.

you know,

Well, my, my prediction for education is that public schools are going to be these, the places where, only poor and disabled people are gonna go because the way the world is moving. I don't see us making the investments in public education to, to [00:25:00] satisfy anybody who is I. To satisfy anybody really.

I see us continuing going down this negative path and and it's going to end up being just the disabled and just the extreme poverty cases that are going to be attending public school. And right now, Kevin, to be honest, I don't see a different future than that. I don't see the public rallying and saying, no, we need to invest in our local schools.

I just don't see it happening.

Yeah. So I think you and I talk to a lot of people and see a lot, probably getting a little more insights into the. The broader view of what's going on that it's definitely the trend that we're going. I've been talking to people a lot about this a lot. This fragment, I've been calling it fragmentation.

The fragmentation of schools is accelerating at a level that I think most people don't recognize. Is happening. And there's, I don't even know the number of states right now. I think at one point it was 23 states had passed some type of legislation that allowed [00:26:00] the parents to pick where to put their education money.

I. And so that's co like, vastly gonna accelerate this of saying, well, okay, well maybe I want to do a charter school, maybe I wanna do private school, maybe I wanna do a micro school. Maybe I wanna do some type of homeschooling option. There's so many different options that are out there. And then and then you start seeing what you have with the online and the AI and the pieces of that.

It is happening pretty fast. Like in, in my district right now in Arizona there we're in an election cycle and the school board discussion is that only 54% of the people that, of the kids that could go to the public district, are going to the public district.

Yeah. Yep.

that's significant. It was always, it used to always be like, yeah, maybe there'd be like 10, 20% going to private or charter school.

but half like

Yeah. Yeah. Right now, yeah, only 54% are doing that. So you are a hundred percent right. [00:27:00] That is the direction we are

Yeah and I don't personally think that that is as bad a thing as most educators think that it is. And what we have to do is we have to. Be prepared for that and make plans accordingly. And so a lot of districts are going through major budget cuts and shortfalls after Covid where we were propping up these old systems that aren't working for everybody anymore.

And this afternoon on the podcast I'm interviewing someone who helps people start their own schools. Especially micro schools and like this is becoming a different path and it's not necessarily bad, but it is definitely different and there are a lot of things that are really beneficial for different types of people who could benefit from a different type of approach and our folly as educators.

I say that we as educators, as a group of people, not necessarily me and you, but our folly [00:28:00] as educators is thinking that. It's not going to change and that we can just continue doing business as usual, and that is absolutely not the case. And we need to make better choices around how we're going to manage it and deal with it.

Yeah. Yeah, so on my podcast I've had this discussion a lot too, of like, people want to think about like, what is it, what does school look like in the future? What's it gonna look like in 20, 30, 50 years? So I had two different futurists come on, and they both actually said the same thing, like independently.

They said when they're looking to try to figure out what it is in the future they typically look at a much shorter timeframe. Three to five years say, what do we know with almost 100% certainty will not change.

Yeah.

and that has, that's just stuck with me as I've been thinking about this, of like, okay, like what are those things, right?

Like, we know there's gonna be kids, right?

Yeah.

We know that most parents don't want their kids [00:29:00] with them all the time in there. So even like even the homeschool movement, there's there, it's not. With the it's not, the way I feel like some people feel homeschool is, there's a lot of social components to that end interacting with other kids their age or other adults and how to do that.

So you start looking back like, so I, and maybe this is everyone, but I would say the vast majority, if I'm gonna predict, still want social interactions for their kids in there. And then beyond that, it starts getting. It's hard to say what we know for certain. I would say the school system's still gonna exist, but I do think it's gonna be very different and they're either gonna have to adopt or it's gonna become kind of more of like the way you explained it almost.

Like just

Yeah.

this, yeah. I don't even wanna put words to it 'cause,

yeah. Well I think it's a reality that we need to be prepared for mentally at the [00:30:00] very least. So we can obviously talk about this for a while, but you had mentioned that part of your goal in coming on here and getting the word out is needing support and help with the second class Foundation.

How can people get involved and support your work?

Yeah. Second class, foundation,

Go watch this. It's a nine minute, the first episode.

Go watch that and see if this is something that, that resonates with you. And you'll have an opportunity to learn more about. The foundation. This is just one project that we hope is a bigger legacy type of nonprofit that we set up, but we honestly, we need a lot of help. We need people who are passionate about this.

We, we need, we have some additional board seats. We know what it costs to do this and, and probably the biggest or just as much of the cost is in the distribution of getting it in front of people's eyes. We've flat out have run outta money. We've self-funded to get this started, but was always with the [00:31:00] intent, let's find the people who care about this so that we can fund the rest of the things that we wanna work on here.

But that's where we're at. I'm a. Business guy. I don't know anything about a nonprofit. So I'm trying to build a really good team around me, and that's what we're in the process of doing right now.

Very good. Well, that is second class foundation.org. There's a link to that in the show notes. There's a little tab up at the top that says, get involved. I encourage you to click that and go. Submit something. And even if you think, oh, I don't know that I can contribute anything it doesn't have to be about money.

It could be about volunteering. It could be connections, it could be all kinds of things. So every nonprofit needs people involved. And that's the most valuable resource that they have, are the people that are there. So Kevin, thanks again for being part of Transformative Principle and great having you on the show.

And thanks for sharing what you're doing with Second Class Foundation.

Thank you Jethro