Transformative Principal

[00:00:00] Welcome to Transformative Principal, where I help you stop putting out fires and start leading. I am your host, Jethro Jones. You can follow me on Twitter at Jethro Jones.

Welcome to Transformative Principle. I am your host, Jethro Jones. You can find me on all the social networks at Jethro Jones. Transformative Principle is a proud member of the BE Podcast Network. That is the place you can go to find all the best education podcasts out there. Be podcast network.com to see all of our shows.

There's about 40 of them now. Uh, maybe closer to 50. Actually, I misspoke. Closer to 50. Uh, so go [00:01:00] check those out. Uh, today I'm excited to have on the program, uh, Dr. Sandy Brice, and she is a former. Superintendent and she's, I'm sorry, lemme start that over. Dr. Sandy Bries is the founder and superintendent of Telesis Center for Learning Incorporated, found in 1991 in Lake Havasu City, Arizona, which includes two tuition free public charter schools, Tessy Preparatory Academy for grades nine through 12.

And Telus's preparatory for grades K through eight, which she oversees and operates as the nonprofit corporation, tele Tesis Center for Learning, incorporated with a staff of 48 and student enrollment of 350. And there's a bunch more about her that we are going to get to. Probably in the interview, and certainly you can go read more of her bio on the website, Transformative principle.org, where we'll have links to everything that we talk about here.

Sandy, welcome to the podcast, so grateful to have you here.[00:02:00]

Thank you very much, Jethro. I'm so glad to meet you.

Now, uh, a lot of people are just coming around to learn about charter schools, but you started this school back in 1991, so this is like, uh, 34 years ago. It's a long time. 33 years ago.

And in fact you've hit a, a, a bullet point I would want to point out is that, uh, I started my school before charter schools were ever invented

Mm-hmm.

and they were nowhere in the nation. They didn't come around till about 1994, and that was back east. It took a while for it to roll towards my part of the world.

This in Arizona. So I, I didn't even know what charters were. There were no, there was no such thing. So the only way I could, uh, open my school was as a private school versus a, a district or government school, as some people call 'em. Yeah. Mm-Hmm.

And so then you transitioned to be a tuition free public charter school, uh, which then allows you to serve anybody, not [00:03:00] just those who can financially afford it. Um, so why did you start this to begin with?

Oh, that's a good question. Um, well, I was in a small community and that was 33 years ago. So Lake Havasu City in Arizona, and any of, any of your listeners that have been there will know that it, it has grown and grown and grown. It, it. It started way back long ago in 1990, uh, four, uh, I'm sorry, 1994. 1964, excuse me,

you go. It's all good.

I gotta go back a few decades. 1964. I moved there, uh, sight unseen with my parents in 1966 and much later after I became a teacher. Uh, and, uh, taught for about. 18 years, I saw that the community needed some choice, and choice wasn't even a trend then. It was, you either went to a public school or you went to a private school.

That was [00:04:00] it. And, uh, but it, we, as our community grew, we needed a choice. I. And I saw it with my own son, who at that time was only a third grader when I had this great idea and I never knew it was gonna develop into a school, but to do something different. By the time he became a middle schooler, which at that time was in the vicinity of sixth or seventh grade, and there was middle school wasn't even a thing then, but

Yeah.

it was junior high then.

So, uh, so I made it my goal to do something different 'cause I was part of the system and he was still falling through the cracks and I was a teacher with the school system and couldn't make it happen as it should have. And class size was horrendous. 'cause like Hava, Sioux City couldn't keep up and the school district couldn't keep up with the, um, um, enormous residents that we acquired so quickly.

So it was difficult. Class sizes were on [00:05:00] overload. So I saw a need and I went to work on planning it. And then I opened a private school for nine students in 1991.

Wow.

Right.

Wow, nine students. That's crazy. So, uh, and now micro schools are all coming back in the rage now, and that's a lot of people are focusing on, on schools that small. So what was it that made Telus different and still makes it different today?

Thank you so much for asking that, because our emphasis then, and our emphasis now still is. Small class size. We keep our, our classrooms, uh, small. Uh, about 20, no more than 2021 is a big number for us. We keep it about 20. And, uh, anything bigger than that, we work hard to get another teacher to make it smaller.

And so even today with our 350 students, we still keep our class sizes small and our. Uh, philosophy is still the [00:06:00] same, and that's individualization of instruction. We individualize everything. That's why class size needs to be small.

Yeah, so how do you keep class sizes so small? Because everybody's saying there's not enough money to do that, especially big districts, and yet you're figuring out a way to make it happen with the same dollars that a regular district would have. I.

Because that's our philosophy and because that's what makes us different and sets us apart from other schools, other public schools, and we're, we're, that are tuition free. We keep, we hold to that promise. We make that promise not only to our. Parents and our students, but also to our teachers. There's teachers that seek out smaller schools for that very reason.

So they don't have overcrowded classrooms to teach in, but they have a guarantee. And so we, we find a way to bite the bullet and we, we try, we do lots of fundraising. We we're always working on ways to make it work. So it's every year is a [00:07:00] different year and a new year and, and, uh, it is so far, uh, for 33 years it's worked out just fine and we're doing striving to do very well today.

Yeah. Well, and that's one of the things that I, uh, that I talk about in my book, how to Be a Transformative Principle, that if you have a vision, then you can find ways to make that vision work. And if your vision is small class sizes, then. That's how you define yourself. It's going to be impossible to, to make decisions that lead to larger class sizes.

How, how, how would you take that approach of having that clear vision and how that helped?

Well, our vision has always been small class size and, and individualized instruction. And for 33 years, that's all we've practiced is that kind of a style of, of. So people that seek us out, seek us out for that reason, for a small class size environment for their children, for also for individualized instruction.

So we, we, we become [00:08:00] kind of like a second family, so an extension to their own personal family. We, we know our students very well because we get to know them in the small classroom that don't, that doesn't have 32, 34, 35, 40 students in it. We, we keep it small, about 20. So that is very conveniently works in well for people that are looking for that kind of individualized treatment.

And, and this is where I think it's so important that you can't even fathom doing something different besides small class sizes in individualized instruction because it's not in your DNA. Right? And so, yeah.

the word right out of my mouth. I was gonna say, it's just not in my DNA to do it because when I was with the school district, the big school district that W had overcrowded classrooms and still does have somewhat o overcrowded this in their classrooms, it's. You know, it's important to [00:09:00] me and that most teachers that are dedicated to what they wanna do, they also consider that a, a strong benefit for a teacher to have a small class size.

And so that's what we uphold and that's what we do. And I don't see it changing for anytime soon.

Well, and the other part of that is that when you have a clear vision for what you're doing, then you start attracting people who like that. Also, can you share some stories or examples of how you've attracted great talent because of your individualization and small class sizes?

Yes, the, the teachers that drive a long distance to commute to get to our school, uh, we've had 'em come from, uh, uh, other communities in the area that are, you know, anywhere from 45 to 65 miles away, and they commute every day. They come in the morning and they go home at night, come the next day in the morning and go home at night.

So yeah, it's, uh, they, they do that 'cause they, they want the small class [00:10:00] size and the individualized instruction. And I'm happy to say that we have a lot of longevity at our school with our instructors, our educators, they came back to us. They don't wanna leave. They don't e even, even if they're seeking a higher wage, they, they come back to us.

So it's, it's very, and we've had to. Teachers that have left to check out the grass on the other side to see how green it is, and they turn right around and they come back in a year or two. So I know that's true.

Yeah, I, I believe it. So you started the school a long time ago. Uh, 33 years. That is, uh, longer than most people's careers. That's when you started. So. So the dy, the world has changed. The dynamics have changed. What would you, what advice would you give to someone who's thinking, well, maybe I should start my own school.

Like it's not too late to do that. There is value in doing it. What would be your advice to someone who's thinking about doing that today?

My advice would be, first of all, don't do what I did and wait [00:11:00] for three years to start. I thought about it and researched it, and it was a song playing in my head, you know, like, uh, I like, uh, I'm Henry Vi eighth. I am, I am, I am, I am. I think I can't get it out of my head, so that, that song kept playing in my head and I should have started sooner, but I didn't have anybody to talk to about it.

I didn't have a, a, a colleague that was. Uh, firmly committed to doing this, and so that made it difficult. And now that I'm a retired principal, but still superintendent of my school, that's still thriving and growing today, now I have a little more time to be more flexible and consult with others who are just as passionate as I was about doing what I did and waited too long to do it so I can help them along the way.

And that's why I founded School Founders Academy.

Yeah, I think your, your advice to, uh, to find community is really powerful because when you're trying to do this all alone, you can feel like [00:12:00] you're crazy. And when you've got people around you who can, who can buy into your vision and, and believe in it also, then it really changes things. It makes it possible for you to be successful in actually doing it.

So. Don't wait. Find community. What, what else should they, uh, do or know before they start down this path?

Well, if they're committed and, and it's a burning desire in their heart and in their gut, that they just have to do this like it was with me, they're gonna bump into some naysayers. And, uh, that's just a warning. They're gonna, there's probably gonna be people with me. It was my best friends and colleagues when I told 'em I was gonna start a school, they thought I had lost my mind.

mm-Hmm.

And I, but I explained to 'em, I, I couldn't go back 'cause it was something that I just, in my DNAI just had to. Do it. 'cause I, I knew I could make it work and, but they still discouraged me from doing it. So then I learned to reach out to my [00:13:00] community members individually. When I bumped into obstacles, I would pick out a community member who I needed to.

Talk to and maybe get some good advice. And then things got lots better

Uh,

because then I began, began to personalize my community and build it from the ground up. And uh, that's kind of what leads me to talk about my book. Um, chapter three and Power of Community, the anthology that was published last March and it hit the international bestseller list and we're so proud of it.

And. The authors on the back of the book and I myself each wrote a chapter about our community, of course, chapter three. My chapter is all about Lake Havasu City and how it supported and helped in those early days, way back 33 years ago when cell phones weren't even even around. So, you know, there were, there were many, many differences that.

We had charter schools hadn't [00:14:00] started. Choice wasn't even a trend. So it was, you know, this, this, the, the stories in chapter three are the obstacles that I'm, that I met with some of the obstacles. I wish I could have put 'em all there. I, I might have to write a full, a full power of community book just about telesis, but it was amazing and the community is what made it work.

Yeah. And, and that's really powerful. I appreciate that. Um, so I think that. Those, those pieces of advice are powerful and, and worthwhile. Um, there, it seems like there's a lot more red tape now and a lot more hoops to jump through. Uh, especially for example, I live in Washington and they're not charter school friendly, and they, they don't want charter schools and they make it very difficult to get one going and, but you know, you could still start a private school and that's exactly what you did before.

Charter schools were an option.

That is.

So what would your advice be [00:15:00] around funding and getting the money to have a building to rent out a space, all that kind of stuff. What would be your advice there?

Well in, in the state of Arizona, they treat charter schools and have, since they first began in, in 1994. And when they got to Arizona, it was about 1998. And at that time, Arizona. Treat some, traded them like a business and well, they still do treat their charters like a business. So what you did is you got all your paperwork together and you went to the bank like a business would and borrowed money to make things happen.

If that was the, the necessary way to go. Or you did fundraising or you went to the bank and you did fundraising, which was usually the case for, for us. Most of the time. So that's what I did. I've done that a number of times. We've had major expansions over the 33 years. Uh, we now have a full sports size gymnasium, full sports [00:16:00] program.

All of that was in its beginning stages. Took lots of hard work.

Yeah. Yeah,

Hard work, elbow grease.

Yeah. So my last question, Sandy, is what is one thing that a principal can do this week to be a Transformative Principal leader like you?

Oh, good question. They can call me because I'm here to help them. I've got the playbook in my head and also we're on paper so that I can help them in a, in a Transformative way to. Some of those obstacles, like beginning with those naysayers and how they, you don't want those naysayers to, to crush the pursuit of your happiness and your dream school that you've been dreaming of.

'cause I know how that feels. So you don't wanna go there. You wanna continue and do well and someone to talk to, someone to confide in, in confidence where, where you can discuss your problems, not. Not that I'm gonna tell anybody what to do. I'm just gonna tell them, [00:17:00] share with them what happened to me, what happened, what I did in that situation, and pretty much the obstacles will be similar.

I'm pretty sure.

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well thank you so much. And how should people get in touch with you?

Well, they can read my book, the, the, the chapter three in Power of Community anthology. It's available on Amazon, and that would be a start. Then they can call me up. I give all my contact information at the end of the chapter. Uh, that's Sandy at Telus. Oops, Sandy at School Founders Academy. That's my email address.

Yep, and we've got a link to that in the show notes at Transformative principle.org, so make sure you go and check that out. Sandy, thank you so much for being part of Transformative principle today. It has been great chatting with you.

Jethro. Thank you. Thank you so much. [00:18:00]