Transformative Principal

TP Mike Cronley
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[00:00:00] Jethro Jones: Welcome to Transformative Principle, where I help you stop putting out fires and start leading. I am your host, Jethro Jones. You can follow me on Twitter at Jethro Jones.

[00:00:34] Welcome to Transformative Principal. I am so excited to have Mike Croley on the program today. He is the founder and CEO of class composer, and he spent 12 years teaching third grade where he experienced the frustration of imbalanced classrooms firsthand. He was driven by a passion. For technology and a commitment to education.

[00:00:59] Jethro Jones: And so we created a class composer, which is software designed to create equitable learning environments for all students. Mike, welcome to Transformative Principal. Great to have you here.

[00:01:08] Mike Cronley: Jethro, real pleasure to be on your show. Thank you so much.

[00:01:12] Jethro Jones: Oh, my pleasure to have you. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Um. There. We're doing a whole series with Mike about Class Composer on the EdTech Startup Showcase, which is also on the B Podcast network. And so I suggest to get more about his backstory, why he created this and all that, uh, you can go check that out on the EdTech Startup Showcase.

[00:01:39] Jethro Jones: On the B podcast network. Uh, you can search for that wherever you get podcasts. Um, but what I really liked and wanted, well, the reason why I wanted to bring Mike on this show is because. Uh, being a, an elementary school principal and going through this process every year of trying to put kids in classes, um, I just banged my head up against the wall every time it happened.

[00:02:03] Jethro Jones: And, um, and it was frustrating, uh, because I always felt like certain teachers wanted certain kids. Certain kids wanted certain teachers, well, rather, certain parents wanted certain teachers, and it was really easy. For things to get outta whack really fast and make everybody upset with the whole process.

[00:02:24] Jethro Jones: And so, um, so when I learned about Class Composer, I thought this is a, a great opportunity to share, um, some different ways that people can go about, uh, making these classes. The, the, the load better. So Mike, uh, tell us a little bit about Class Composer first. Again, we're not gonna go into the whole thing.

[00:02:42] Jethro Jones: I direct people over to Ed Tech Startup Showcase, but just give us the 32nd overview of, of what it does. I.

[00:02:49] Mike Cronley: Yeah, Scott, you, you, um, um, oh, sorry. Jethro, you mentioned, uh, like the pain, right? And we essentially solve that with a, um, software program that schools can sign up for. It's cloud-based, and it's familiar to teachers because we designed it to look like paper. And the process mimics what most elementary schools do. So we're basically bringing this frustrating process kind of in the 21st century with software that can crunch the data a lot more effectively and save time and, and better outcomes, which is usually trying to get equity among classes in a grade level.

[00:03:35] Jethro Jones: that idea of having e equitable classes with the right number of kids in it, um, there are a lot of factors that go into that decision. So will you talk about some of the problems that you've solved in real schools and, and what that has looked like? I.

[00:03:51] Mike Cronley: Yes. So, um, you know, at a basic level, you know. Teachers and elementary school principals are trying to account for foundational data, gender, uh, breakdown among classes, um, academic level, um, if they're identified with certain, um, status like English language learner or on a IEP, um, plan. So all these things are entered into the decision making process of where to place. Students and any one of these things. And I, and there's more to mention, uh, as, as factors that come up, but I'm just talking about the basic ones, right? And they, they get to the point where it's data overload. And what happens is you get focused on trying to balance and account for maybe behavior and you kind of take your eye off the ball of some other things. Like identified labels, maybe English language learners, and next thing you know, just by, you know, you, it's, it's not really anybody's fault. One class in a grade level could end up with a lot more ELL students, which wasn't really the plan, right? We wanted to kind of distribute these students out evenly among the teachers in the grade level. So, you know, you can kind of replace ELL with behavior. You can replace ELL with. Too many boys when we, we, we didn't really do a good job of that. So there's a lot of things that just fall through the cracks. And the, the key thing that um, you know, for listeners who aren't in the elementary world is this placement process is really locked in stone. So, unlike middle and high school where kids are shuffled and they go from, you know, period to period and different classes and different teachers in the elementary world. This student placement decision that is made where a student goes in which class. And that class structure isn't really, uh, changed once the school year starts. So that inequity, whatever it is, lasts the whole year with that teacher and in that classroom. So that's why it matters so much to try to get it right from the very beginning, um, as possible.

[00:06:19] Jethro Jones: And, and what's so fascinating there is you, you summarized it perfectly that you focus on one thing, it's hard to focus on something else and you lose, you lose track of it. And that exact thing that you described happened in the school or as assistant principal. Where we were trying to, to balance and turns out that we ended up with, um, 20 of the 25 students in one teacher's class were all boys.

[00:06:49] Jethro Jones: And this was second grade, which, uh, led to all kinds of crazy, challenging, difficult behaviors, um, and made those poor five girls in that class, uh, feel. Uh, really outnumbered and outta place. And the reason why I bring up that specific one is because that's actually what happened when the school year started.

[00:07:10] Jethro Jones: And we walked into that classroom and we were like, uh, why are there 20 boys in here? And, and you're right, it was already done. Like we couldn't really change that very easily. We could have, but we would've had to fight a lot to do it. And we did make some changes so that it was more like. 17 or 18 and 10, uh, or, or something like that.

[00:07:36] Jethro Jones: And we made some changes, but it wasn't quite perfect. And what we essentially had to do was say any new second graders are going to go, any new second grade girls are going to go into this class. I. No matter what. Like that's, that's what we have to do to balance this out. And I, I didn't understand until I was in that position how challenging that could be.

[00:07:59] Jethro Jones: And as a middle school teacher, previous to that, I had a class that was very imbalanced and. And I saw how different it was, uh, when that was the case, but I only had those kids for 45 minutes, and so it wasn't as big a deal as being with the same kids for the entire school day.

[00:08:19] Mike Cronley: And that's the real pain that, um, principals remember when they were teaching. And also it, it impacts the principals throughout the year. You know, these, these classes, that impacts a lot as far as. How far teachers can go with curriculum. Um, you know, the classroom culture and even the kids like, like, you know, we get into education 'cause we want to help kids and I'm talking about principals, I'm talking about the teachers.

[00:08:49] Mike Cronley: But you know, I lived it, I taught for 12 years and I know what it's like for the kids in that class and that classroom culture can be impacted severely because. It's not right. And the kids know it, right? And they're like, I, I have to go into this class every day, you know, and kind of make it through.

[00:09:08] Mike Cronley: Right? And the teacher's trying to do the best they can, but, you know, we're restrained, you know, there's a lot of constraints on teachers, right? So, um, you know, it, it, it just creates, um, unintentional problems that are, um, long lasting. So that's what

[00:09:26] Mike Cronley: we're ultimately trying to do is, is give a tool that. Stops that from happening. So,

[00:09:32] Jethro Jones: Yeah. So can you share a couple of examples of, of schools where, uh, where they've implemented your software and some of the things that they've seen? Have you, have you been able to see things like improved behavior or improved academic, uh, responses or things like that? What, what kinds of, or is it just cultural that we feel better as a school because of this?

[00:09:55] Mike Cronley: you know, I jet, I wish I had more. Of that downstream, you know, stories to tell about the impact of schools using our product the next year and how it came out as far as the distribution. Um, but stories I can tell is, you know, I hear from teachers and principals that, and this, this is the one that makes me like really feel good, is my teachers are happy with the output. And, and I think that alone is a big deal. and and we, you know, we're a company and we're a business and for profit and, and you know, one of those metrics is always renewal rates. And we have a really good renewal rate. And I don't think schools would be paying for us year over year if we weren't delivering that value. Um, but I wish I had some more, you know, stories to tell about the exact. You know, at one school they did this and this was a better scenario. But, but in general, I think we are delivering the value of, um, making data visual so they can do a good job

[00:11:10] Mike Cronley: and and the output is they're happy and the teachers are happy and they want to keep using us because they know it's better than going back to the old fashioned with paper or sticky notes.

[00:11:20] Jethro Jones: Well, and, and here's the real kicker for that, that I think is so valuable is that, um, you, there are a lot of things that happen in school that don't show up on test scores, that don't show up on, you know, satisfaction surveys because the elimination of a problem. Before it becomes a problem isn't really something that you can quantify.

[00:11:46] Jethro Jones: Right? And so, you know, being able to say like, we, we get our class list and we feel good about it, and we feel like we're sharing the load and we're working together. Um, the, the opposite of that is so and so has a quote unquote better class than me. And now I feel hurt and offended because that happened.

[00:12:08] Jethro Jones: And if that, if that never happens, then. Then you're doing a great job because that's a very real thing for every teacher to experience. And anybody who's been a teacher knows when, when I get my class list and I see who's on there, if, if it's, if I feel like I'm getting dumped on, then you really feel like you're getting dumped on and, and that's a tough thing to overcome.

[00:12:32] Mike Cronley: It is and it and it, and you remember it. Right? And I, and I remember the tough classes that I had, and you know, it's just. It's really difficult, uh, year sometimes to go through that. But the way you describe it, like I played sports growing up and, and um, you know, there, there's always one or two people on your team that they weren't scoring points or they weren't starters, but boy, they made a difference in the game.

[00:13:05] Mike Cronley: Right? And it's like they come off the bench or you know, they're scrappy or whatever, and it's like, wow, like. That isn't showing up in the scoreboard or the stats. And I like the way you kind of described that and it's like, and I, I, I would hope that we're kind of like that. It's just like we, we have a really good tool and it's making a difference, but it, it can't be quantified easily. And we've actually done some reaching out to have studies done, but the, the challenge is having that control group in comparison. To the group that has been placed using our software is really difficult and there's so many variables to kind of quantify the change or the improvement because it, it's just really challenging situation.

[00:13:57] Mike Cronley: But, but we'd like to, but it's, it's difficult.

[00:13:59] Jethro Jones: Yeah. Well, and it, it, it really is something that, um, there, it, it makes an impact even if you can't describe the impact. A hundred percent. And, and that is, um, that's something too, you know. what, what is the easiest way for, for people to get a feel for what your software does? How can they check it out?

[00:14:23] Jethro Jones: Where can they go to learn more about it?

[00:14:25] Mike Cronley: Uh, class composer.com is our, our website, and we have a lot of information there. And we just actually updated the, we call it the landing page where you land when you, you know, go to our URL for our site. And if you just scroll down a little ways, there's like, how does it work section? And there's a step one and a step two and, and it's kind of a carousel. So I think it's a really good quick visual description of. What it does and what it looks like. You know, in the beginning I mentioned we tried to make it user friendly and look like paper. So on our site you can kind of scroll down and see that effect. Um, and I think that's one of the reasons teachers like our product is because it's familiar. Um, even though it's in a digital environment, they, they're like, oh, this looks familiar to paper. And, and it's very easy to, to, um, see how they can. Use it, uh, without training.

[00:15:26] Jethro Jones: Yeah. Well, I, I definitely appreciate it and if you have been listening to Transformative principle for a while, you know that this is one of the things that I, that I keep harping on, that there are EdTech tools out there that simplify and make our life better, that we may not even know that we need, but they're worthwhile.

[00:15:47] Jethro Jones: And as it relates to scheduling, uh, we've had able on the program before and, um. And, uh, teach effects. And, uh, gosh, one other one that I can't think of right now, but we've done a lot of things around this idea of, of making the schedules right. And, you know, one of the other things is the app that I developed called Picker, um, that doesn't work anymore, but was amazing when it did work because it allowed us to create ad hoc groups.

[00:16:17] Jethro Jones: Um, and what I love about Class Composer is that this, you know, is a little tool that you need when you need it, and it's great for that and um, and really powerful for helping make those things happen. So, uh, thank you so much Mike for being part of Transformative Principle. Again, you can go check out his stuff@classcomposer.com and go give it a look and see if it would help you with your stuff this year.

[00:16:44] Jethro Jones: Thanks so much for coming on, Mike.

[00:16:46] Mike Cronley: Thank you, Jethro. It was a pleasure.