Transformative Principal

Jethro Jones: Welcome to Transformative Principle, where I help you stop putting out fires and start leading.

I'm your host, Jethro Jones.

You can follow me on Twitter at Jethro Jones.

start what you were saying about education journalism

Charles Sosnik: Education journalism isn't the same as reporting the news.

People think education journalism is when a shooting happens at a school and somebody reports what happens?

Well, that's the news reporting and that's not the same thing to me.

To me, education journalism should be about ideas and using the ideas of all the great minds and education and everywhere else to.

Figure out where we need to go and, and how to get there.

And we're really not doing that yet, but we can.

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

So what, like what does that look like in today's environment where so much is driven by political things and political agendas?

Like what does it, what does it look like to be, um.

You know, to, to have these conversations.

Is it, is blogs and podcasting enough, or is there, does there need to be something more?

Charles Sosnik: Blogs and podcasting are important.

Uh, certainly not enough when you add the things that, that I do and that Victor does that, uh, and, and all the other magazines and, and websites, that's a big part of it too.

Uh, but we need all the voices we can find.

Certainly voices like yours and, and uh, your partners, perhaps the voices in my magazines are, are very important, but we also need to, to find the voices that we can't hear yet because I would almost guarantee you the answers are out there.

The truth is out there, however you want to say it.

Um, but everyone needs to speak up and everyone needs to find his or her voice, and I think we can get where we're going.

Right now, um, the environment to me is absolutely absurd when the issues of the day are, um, whether transgender athletes should be allowed to use the bathroom, and that makes the news and that requires an executive decision all the way up at the White House.

Well, to me, that's a distraction.

The, the real, you know, the, the real.

Thing is our children aren't being educated, they're not learning.

And I would almost say who cares if, if a transgender student uses a girl's bathroom or a boy's bathroom, I'm sure somebody cares, but that's not the issue.

It's a distraction.

So we need to find all the voices that we can and get to where we need to to be.

When the mythical grade level says that 83% of the kids can't read.

At this grade level, that's a big problem.

That that's a much bigger problem than anything else I can think of in education.

So let's talk about that.

I mean, we can even talk about what the hell is a grade level if none of the kids are reading at grade level, how could that be grade level,

Jethro Jones: Exactly.

Charles Sosnik: just for example.

But I don't know.

We, we, we've got real issues, real challenges.

Let's, let's jump in there everybody and solve them.

I've never met anybody in public life, a Republican, a Democrat, an independent that doesn't care about his children, that doesn't want to get better.

So let's quit screaming at each other and, and calling names, and let's sit down and get all the ideas on the table and move forward.

What's wrong with that?

Jethro Jones: Yeah, well that's, that's something that I believe also and um, as I. As a school principal, when I would talk to parents and they'd have something that they were upset or bothered by, I always started by saying, Hey, look, you and I both want the same thing for your child to be happy, healthy, and grow up in a successful way, and, and be a good positive adult.

There's no parent out there that does not want that for their kids.

And, and, and it's crazy to think that there's not, um.

That we can't come together on that idea and, and get a lot of these things that truly are distractions out of, uh, the, the public eye.

Why do you think that people pay so much attention to, to that stuff that is, uh, um, you know, all the distractions?

Why do you think people pay more attention to that than the real issues?

Charles Sosnik: I'm not sure Jeff.

Right.

Perhaps it's because that's what it's fed.

That's what they're fed.

Perhaps therein lies the problem in, uh, education journalism.

Uh, I, I, I don't know why they pay attention to that more so than it, it, it may be because they just assume that their children are going to get educated in, in our school system.

And that's been the assumption all along.

It's very comforting to think you can drop your kids off and 13 years later you have an educated adult, but it just ain't so.

A great question.

I.

Jethro Jones: Well, and that's, that's something that I've been thinking a lot about also, that you, you outsource the education of your kids to the state.

And, and I think that is a fundamental flaw with how we do education in the United States, where, what I believe we should say is that education.

And regardless of whether or not we say this, this is the actual truth, this is the reality.

Of what exists.

Education is the responsibility of the parents and the state steps in to assist them when they send their kids to the school.

But the, the issue there is that the reason why that's the truth is because ev, no matter what you teach in school.

You're not going to out teach what the kids are learning at home.

And, and this is, you know, it goes to the value of education.

It goes to how to treat other people.

And if you say one thing but the parents at home are doing a different thing, it, it doesn't really matter.

You're not going to change the kids' minds because they're with their parents way more often.

They trust their parents more.

And, and this idea, this arrogant idea that we have in education that we have.

All the answers is just not true, and we need to take a different approach in my mind to make it so that we can actually work with parents instead of asking them to work with us.

Does that sound crazy to you?

Charles Sosnik: It, it sounds absolutely insane and also true.

Um, it somehow.

We got it in our heads that, that everybody understands what education is because they went to school.

But, uh, what is, I mean, you really have to ask yourself what is education and what is it, what is education now?

Is it teaching or is it learning?

Is it control or is it having the, the students take control?

I mean, we probably have to actually redefine what it is we think we're doing.

I think there's some fundamental questions that aren't being answered.

So, um, is, is it, I I don't know that it's the parents', it's certainly the parent's responsibility.

I don't know that the parents are necessarily more qualified, because I don't think they understand that, that, that the school doesn't get the job done.

They, they, they just assume that, that the schools are experts.

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

Charles Sosnik: You worked in the school system, what do you think?

Jethro Jones: Well, I, I agree with you.

They, they think that the schools are the experts and, and we may be the experts in some things, but they're the experts in their kids.

And it requires, in my mind, a, a strong partnership for that to work.

And it, regardless of, of where your kids are at, you know, whether they're.

Impoverished or wealthy, whether they're whatever race, it doesn't matter.

The parents know the kids the best and we need to work with them to do what's best for the kids that are in front of us.

And I.

And we have education and experience working with kids, helping them do things, but still, every student is unique.

And that doesn't mean that like you can't teach certain things in a certain way and have virtually all the kids get it.

This has been my ongoing question.

You know, we, we say that there's the science of reading, for example, just to take one topic and we say, okay, we know how to teach reading.

Well, if that's really the case, then one, why are we still having kids fail?

And the easy answer is, well, not everybody's using the science of reading to teach.

But then the second part of that is.

Why are we using, uh, fallible, imperfect teachers to teach something that we know exactly how to teach it, and why are we not using the technology that we have to make it so that kids absolutely get all the practice that they need?

Absolutely.

Have all the experiences that they need, and then we put the teacher in a position to help them win.

That stuff isn't working and when they need something that is unique or different.

But you know, that's, that's just one example of, of that.

If, if that were really the case and we really knew how to teach reading, then we should have a system that ensures that every kid is reading by a certain age and there's no ifs, ands, or buts to it.

But we don't even have that.

Charles Sosnik: Yeah.

And.

So much of, of our education system is based on the fact that we teach all kids the same way.

Um, it's, it's almost like an assembly line, um, to, to mold kids into a, a certain style of adult.

Jethro Jones: Mm-hmm.

Charles Sosnik: And all kids are different.

And perhaps the, the greatest challenge that we have and our greatest failure is, um, the kids.

What we're giving them.

You know, they're, they're, they tune it out.

It's not interesting to them and we, I mean, it's a completely different world.

I'm 64.

How old are you, RA

Jethro Jones: I'm 43.

Charles Sosnik: 43.

Is the world anything like it was when you were 10 years old?

Jethro Jones: No, I was just talking to my kids about that.

Charles Sosnik: It's nothing like when, when I was 10 years old.

And we still teach pretty much the same way.

It's been my experience that if you can get a child interested in something, you can't keep them away from it.

Why?

Why?

Why isn't that our goal?

To get kids turned on to, to what they're interested in and then slip in the mathematics and the reading, and the physics and the biology and let them go for it.

Kids are are such magical, wonderful beings.

They're like sponges that take in their environment.

Let's take advantage of that.

Let's let 'em have fun.

Let's let 'em be creative.

Let's let them direct where they want to go.

Uh, why are you trying to beat them into a box?

Is it about control?

Is it that we just don't understand that teaching isn't learning?

There's so many good questions out there.

Um, is education simply warehousing children today so the parents can work it?

I don't even think it's a matter of public versus private, and I don't think it's a matter of new technology or better, new, better technology or artificial intelligence.

If you use artificial intelligence to have a more efficient system of teaching the way you always taught, you're just gonna get more intense versions of failure.

mean, let's be real.

Artificial intelligence is a gift and could be the, the greatest technology ever for learners.

But let's see it as a, a tool for learners, not a tool for teachers.

Jethro Jones: Mm-hmm.

Charles Sosnik: There's so many smart people out there, Jeff Row, and, and I've been in education.

I've been in media all my life, 45, 50 working years, and I came to education late, what, 20 years ago.

I went to education media.

And I found my life then, and I was just astounded at how much people care.

Nobody's in it for the money.

Everybody's in it because they love children and wanna make a difference in children's lives.

Well, you take that group of people and what they know and get everybody talking.

We could probably get somewhere.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, I, I, I totally agree, and as I did interviews for teachers, the most common response that I hear about why you got into teaching is that people love seeing the light go off in kids' eyes.

Shoot.

I even use that same, uh, response when people ask me why I went into teaching and.

And what's amazing is that our system is designed to not see the light bulb go off in kids' eyes.

And yet that's why so many teachers go into it is 'cause they want that to happen.

But, but we're not set up for that to be the case.

And you know, there's, there's a lot of folks talking about how.

You know, we need to do direct instruction and make sure kids know exactly what they need to learn.

And all that does, it does systematize it and does make it easy to say whether or not a kid is learning something.

But again, that's putting the emphasis, like you said, on the teaching, not on the learning and in, in my experience, and if you search for a synergy on on this podcast, you'll hear me talking about it many times where when kids.

Were able, once they had the foundational skills of, of reading and writing and math, once they could do that, then we could turn 'em loose and they would learn more than we could possibly teach them in, in a traditional classroom setting.

And, and we had students who would pass off 40 or 50 standards in the time that.

If we tried to teach all of those standards and come up with a way to assess all of them and, and teach them, make sure every kid got 'em.

There's just no way.

And the amount of information that is out there that kids can learn is way beyond anything that, that we could ever hope to teach them in a systematic and structured way.

And I think we just need to let go of that.

Yes, kids need to be able to read and write and do math.

But beyond that, I think we need to open the flood gates and allow them so much more freedom and flexibility in what they're learning because that's going to make it possible for them to learn what's applicable to them.

And then if they know how to learn, then when they come to something they can't do, they can just learn it 'cause they've learned that skill.

Charles Sosnik: Very, very well.

Said, um, do we take the time to explain to kids why we want them to learn math or what math means?

Math is not memorizing equations.

What, what does math mean?

Why are we learning it?

What, what will math help me do in my life?

What's the relevance?

My middle son Stone is just turned 23.

He's been out in college a couple years.

I remember a conversation I had with him when he was in middle school.

We were talking about his subjects and what he liked, and we came to science and asked him, you know, how are you doing in science?

He said, I hate science.

And man, that was like a kick to the stomach because I'm a science nerd and I loved being in school and learning about science.

And I said, how come Stone?

And I swear to you, Jeff, he said, he looked at me, he said, in all childhood seriousness, because it has nothing to do with my life.

How badly would you have to teach science where a kid believes that?

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

Oh my

Charles Sosnik: You know, when I was in the seventh grade, I remember going down to the creek behind the school and looking at the rocks and seeing the Strat stratifications in the rocks, and we talked about how much pressure and how much time would it take.

To push the rocks together and do that.

You could use your imagination and think of that and think of the millennia that it takes, or if we learned about astronomy, somebody's mom would bring a telescope to school and everybody'd show up about six, and we would look at the stars together.

To me, that's kids in science.

It's not reading a book that doesn't touch you in any way whatsoever.

How have we lost that?

Have we lost the ability to, to.

Get kids in love with learning.

Shouldn't that be a first step?

Jethro Jones: Yeah, you would think so.

So I, this, I, I appreciate this conversation.

I'm glad we had it so we can get on the.

On the same page about a few things.

I want to talk a little bit about the, a little bit more about the journalism space of education.

There are so many smart, intelligent, um, educators out there who should be contributing to this field.

So how, how would you suggest that people.

Start contributing.

You're publisher and editor of several, uh, publications and, and how can people get started?

What can they, what can they do and what would be your advice to get started in, in sharing their wisdom and knowledge?

I.

Charles Sosnik: Well, I would love to have them contact me just for one, or, or my counterparts and, and all the other media, um, Victor at EdTech Digest, Lonnie or Doug at Learning Council and, and all the other.

Wonderful publications out there that are searching minute by minute, hour by hour, looking for these voices.

Just don't be afraid.

Just step up and say, Hey, is it okay if I write an article?

Because all of us will say, yes.

We would love to have your voice and you and, and Ross and, and all of the, the podcasters in, in your network.

Your network is huge.

You reach thousands and thousands of people.

If I want to be on a podcast, all I have to do is ask and, and you or your counterparts will probably allow it and we can just talk about stuff.

And the more people that talk about stuff and write about stuff and read about stuff and listen about stuff, I think that makes a huge difference.

I think we,

Jethro Jones: It does.

Charles Sosnik: in the education media, have the opportunity to change the world and not because we're real smart.

Because we can find some real smart people to talk to us, and that's what it's gonna take.

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

And, and having people, this is key what you said, having people share what they're doing.

And a lot of people think, well, I can't do that.

I don't have enough credentials or enough history or enough other publish stuff to be able to do that.

And um, and the reality is, is you probably do and you need to think a little bit better about yourself and think that you can contribute to it.

And you know, you have.

All these publications and I, I first heard Leilani Coughin speak, uh, just this year.

I did not know, uh, who she was until I saw her speak.

And, um, and I

Charles Sosnik: What did you, what did you think?

Jethro Jones: well, I was very impressed and I went up to her afterward and I said, Hey, we need to, we need to stay friends.

And then I emailed her and she never emailed me back, but that's.

Charles Sosnik: maybe, maybe, you know, maybe her email filter.

Got it.

I, I'll, I'll pick up the phone and call her and ask her to call you if she'd like.

Jethro Jones: That'd be great.

Charles Sosnik: she's probably the smartest person I've ever met in real life.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, she,

Charles Sosnik: she's.

Jethro Jones: yeah, so I, I was speaking at the same event that she was, and she was the keynote and I was one of the breakout speakers and I. What she said forced me to change what I was presenting that day because it was so on point.

And she was talking about AI and the changing world, and that's what I was talking about too.

So, but the thing is, like, she's not the only one who's, who's thinking that she's not the only one who, who has these ideas, but what she does have is time and a platform to be able to get out there and say it.

And.

There, there are teachers in that, in that audience who followed up with me afterward and had amazing things to say that should be writing articles, but they're not for whatever reason.

So my call here is I. Um, is, is Charles.

Put out the invitation.

If you're listening to this and you've done anything cool in your school, you are qualified to, to write an article to get your voice out there and be part of it.

And, and so if you want to reach out to me, uh, 'cause we already have a connection, 'cause you listen to my podcast, I'll put you in touch with Charles, uh, and anybody else.

But that kind of stuff is, is just so important.

And you know, this is.

Episode, 700 of this podcast or something like that, and.

And it all started because I just wanted to, to learn more myself and then share that with other people.

And I thought I'd have a better chance of being able to talk to people if I told 'em that we were gonna do a podcast.

And that other people might hear it too.

I thought, well, nobody wants to talk to me, but maybe they'll wanna talk to other people.

And, and that's how this started over 12 years ago and, and now I've been doing it for 12 straight years.

And that kind of stuff is really.

I think amazing gives a great opportunity for us to share what we're doing.

So absolutely reach out and say, Hey, I'll, I either want a guest on the podcast or I wanna, I wanna write one an article for something and let's make it happen.

Anything you'd add to that, Charles?

Charles Sosnik: I would go beyond the fact that, that you have an opportunity to get your voice out there.

I, I would go one step further and say, you have a responsibility.

To get your voice out there.

The only thing that's required for things to go wrong is for good people to say nothing.

And it doesn't even matter if, if we end up doing what you say, the fact that it's another voice that can be considered, and it's not just if you done something cool in your school, if you have an idea, if, if you've observed something, if you think something, if you're a teacher, if you're a principal.

If you're a student and you're listening to this, I mean, that's where the real action is.

You're right in the middle of it.

What would help you learn more?

You know, when, when I was in school, I hated it.

I graduated 449 out of 5 0 1 in my class because I, I just didn't like it and didn't try and didn't listen Well, I got in college and, you know, it was, it was straight A's and, and Dean's list.

I. The difference was I liked it and I tried, and how many Charles are out there that might be pretty bright and could make a contribution, but I'm a precocious, excuse me, English fifth language.

I'm a precocious little kid and think I know it.

Also, I'd tune it out well if I was interested and turned on.

Now who knows what I could've, where I could've gone or what, what I could've accomplished as a child and then an adult.

So let, let's get there and let's care, and let's try and let's get rid of the, you know, the, the procedures and, and making our goal to keep school the way it's always been.

And, and let's talk about if we could do anything in education, what would we do?

Let's do that.

Jethro Jones: all right, there's a bunch of different publications that, uh, that people could contribute to.

Um, where, where would you suggest people start?

Is the Learning Council for, for example, something that people could contribute to, or is that a closed system?

Charles Sosnik: Yeah, no, absolutely.

The Learning Council is a great one.

Um, it's not really a traditional publication as you might think, but they have a, a subscriber list of, I think 310,000 United States education administrators.

That's, uh, probably the, the greatest

subscription of, of that group in the entire world.

So that's a, a great place to start.

Contact the learning council.

Um, I have some ed tech and AI publications.

You can contact me, you can call me, you can email me.

Um, I think you could give them my email address after this Jethro, and I'll get on the phone and talk to you.

You know, I would love to talk to you, and I'm very fortunate to know most of the other editors and publications, publishers, excuse me, in the biz, because I've been in it a long time.

I can't tell you how many years I've, I've been at conferences in the.

Excuse me, the media room drinking bad coffee and eating free sandwiches, because that's what journalists do.

If it's free, we're there.

And, um, you know, I, I've talked to, to everybody.

I know everybody.

I'll pick up the phone and, and call another editor for you.

Uh, I don't mind.

It is all about helping each other and getting the word out there.

I'm sure you'll do the same.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, absolutely.

Um, one of the things that, uh, people have said to me is that I'm a super connector and connect.

And that's one of the things that I love to do, is I love to put people with the right kind of people to help them get what they want to have happen.

And, um, and that is a, that's a fun thing for me to do.

And being connected to someone like you who's been in the business for so long and has so many connections, um, that's great because, uh.

I certainly don't have all the answers.

I have some that I think will work for me and work with others, but, um, but if I can connect people with you who do have answers for things, then, then that's fantastic.

And that's the kind of thing that I want to be doing more of is connecting people to, to help them achieve whatever it is that they're going for.

Charles Sosnik: Well, one of the things I've realized in the education media is it's not a competitive environment, and by that I mean that everybody helps everybody.

I can pick up the phone and call another editor and they'll take my call.

And if another editor has an idea he thinks is, is, or she thinks is very important, they'll pick up the phone and call me.

And maybe all of us will run three or four different voices along the same theme.

And if we do that together, we can really make an impact.

So let's, let's all get involved.

Everybody that's listening to your show, if everyone that listens to your show would pick up the phone.

Call you Jeff Row number one.

You'd be a pretty busy guy, but number two, we could just, just the listeners on on your show could change the world if everybody would try.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, it's very true.

And the thing that's so amazing about that is that I've, I've seen it happen as people have.

Reached out to me who have listened to the podcast and said, Hey, this is the thing that I'm doing.

And they do make a difference in, in their local community, but then, then they make a difference in a bigger community when they share what they're doing and share what they're experiencing and seeing.

Because then they give somebody else an idea and say, oh, you know, maybe I can, I can try something like that at my, at my location.

But the thing is, is you don't have to do exactly what someone else does.

You can do your own flavor of it, and you can do your own thing that is unique to you and to your people.

And that's, that's where the real power is, to be honest.

Charles Sosnik: Right.

Listen to me, listen my ideas and then incorporate 'em in, in what you're doing.

If they make sense.

If they don't, so you wasted five minutes, but you tried, you know, that's a great point, Jeff.

Let's, let's use these ideas in our own ways.

Use them as appropriate with with our own learners.

And let's talk to our learners and, and ask them what would help you?

What, what would you need?

What would you like to see?

How often do we do that?

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

Uh, not as often as we would like.

And one of the big challenges, Charles, is, is that it takes time to write, to create, to do things.

What's your advice knowing that it does take time to do things well?

What would you suggest?

Charles Sosnik: I, I would acknowledge that and say, do it anyway.

I. Find the time.

Um, if, if you, if it takes you a couple of hours to, to write an article for me, just realize how important it is and, and you probably won't mind finding the time.

Um, but yeah, it's an effort.

It's not going, the world's not gonna change by itself.

But, uh, with, with you and me and, and all our friends, we can probably make a little bit of a difference.

Maybe a lot of the difference.

But why would you not?

Why, why would you not try?

That's why you're in education.

That's why all of us are so here.

Here's a, a microphone, a megaphone.

Let, let's tell all our friends and all their friends and all their friends.

Sounds like a commercial, doesn't it?

And I told two people and you told, uh,

Jethro Jones: yeah.

Little

Charles Sosnik: I'm old if I remember that commercial.

But anyway, and feel free to delete out any of my rambling.

I find myself bringing in references and I don't realize how old I am, and I'll bring in a reference that's 20 years old thinking everybody can connect to it.

And no, I'm not 80 years old Charles.

But, uh, you know,

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

Charles Sosnik: or leave it in.

So everybody will realize I'm a rambling old man.

Your choice.

Jethro Jones: Either one.

I'll tell you, I will leave it in because that's how I do it.

And I usually don't edit anything out because, um, I want it to be real conversations and real, uh, real people talking and not just, uh, you know, this polished, pristine thing that everybody thinks is, is totally perfect.

I mean, the way we started was a good example, like.

We just jumped in.

And to me that's totally fine and some people are gonna be like, well, who is this guy even that we're talking to?

But you know, you'll, you can look in the show notes and then you can see and, and besides, you're giving good information, so.

Charles Sosnik: Well, the, the answer is, um, I'm one of many and my qualifications aren't particularly stellar.

Um, my greatest qualification is I talk to a lot of people and have for a long time.

And do my best to absorb their ideas and, and relay them when I can.

And that's my only qualification.

I'm not an expert in education at all.

I was an English major and a journalism major.

And, uh, I, I have no qualifications in education whatsoever.

Let me be clear.

But I talk to really smart people and, uh, I'm bright enough to, to know what I don't know and, and to, to tell you what they said.

That's my only qualification.

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

And that's, that, that's a pretty good qualification to be honest.

And, um, none of us gets here on our own.

Right.

And so let me ask you about, uh, about what made you get into, uh, education journalism

Charles Sosnik: Yeah, sure.

Jethro Jones: what, what was your path there?

Charles Sosnik: As, uh, I stated at the beginning, I've been in media forever and, uh, I've produced TV of, uh.

Produce radio.

I've published publications.

I had a, a nice little publication company going and I sold it when I was, I think 46, 45 years old.

And I thought, hot darn, I can retire.

So, uh, I found out I, I really sucked at golf and, uh, you know, there were, there were a lot of things that, that I could do, but it, it just wasn't fulfilling to me.

So I, I took a job, I. And an old friend, Arby Knight had a, a little publication called the Southeast Education Network Magazine, and he said, you know, you can be editor of that if you want.

And I agreed and I jumped in with both hands in both feet.

And I got on the phone, I started calling people because I knew nothing about education and, and it's gonna be hard to be an education editor if you don't know anything.

So I had conversations from eight in the morning till eight at night for days and weeks and months.

I started to understand this education thing and the passion that we're in people, and it, it was just contagious.

And our little magazine grew to 180 page book that had the greatest minds in education and possibly the greatest thing I've ever done in my life.

And I did that for about nine years, then struck out on my own with, with some publications.

And, uh, you know, that that's how I got into it.

Just by accident, he could have had a, a health publication or a mechanics publication and that's what it could have gone into.

And I probably would've retired again shortly after.

But I caught the bug and for the first time in my life I found out what I wanted to do, and money no longer mattered and, and helping people did.

And that's why I'm in it.

That's why I stayed in it.

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

That's, that's fantastic.

I, I love that.

And it's, it's funny, I was talking to a principal who's considering a, a job change, and, um, I. The job would have been more money.

But what he was really excited about was that he had the opportunity to, um, to make a bigger impact than he was making and to do things in enough of a different way that like.

The, the money question was like, okay, whooped, you do it.

It doesn't matter because like, I already have a great job.

I already make enough money and more money would be nice, but the impact that I could make would be gigantic.

And, you know, affecting way more families and helping way more kids would be, would be worthwhile.

Yeah.

To come with a little bit more work also, but.

And, and going back in as, as far as like, he had a pretty good school already.

Um, and so I'd have to like redo some of those things.

But, but that idea of scratching that itch that you have, that you may not know that you have and which is what you're sharing, um, is, is really powerful and an amazing thing when people can finally figure that out.

Charles Sosnik: At, at the end of the day, I'm in the, certainly the last quarter of my professional life.

You have to ask yourself, what have I accomplished?

What have I done?

Who have I helped?

And I can't think of a, a greater industry, if you will, if education is an industry.

I can't think of a better industry, um, to help people.

When I look at the people in education, being a teacher, you might touch 20 to 30 lives a year.

I mean, honestly, touch those lives and, and help them find out who they are and, and have the greatest life they can have.

Who else can even say that?

You know who else can do that?

When you change from being a teacher to a principal, you're no longer working one-on-one with these kids, but now you can influence 20 teachers who influence 30 students.

So you can touch 600 lives in a year and change 600 lives.

That is a magnificent life well lived.

So people in education are given a gift and that they, they help change lives.

So at the end of it all, when you, you look back and you say, what have I done?

If you're a teacher, if you're a principal, you, that's a life well lived.

Money doesn't matter.

If you can feed yourself and clothe yourself and house yourself, what else do you need?

I mean, seriously, do you need a new car?

No.

I, I drive a 25-year-old Ford truck.

It gets from point A to point B. What else do you need?

What, what do you, what are you doing to help people?

You know, if, if I don't want to get into religion, because that's not the, you know, why we're here, but.

If you have those beliefs or belief in God, or a belief in, in higher power, all religions that I know of have the same basic tenets.

You know, love yourself, love others, and help other people.

So whatever religion you're into, that's probably part of it.

Education is a great gig, man.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, it sure is.

Um, yeah, that, I think that's a great place to end it.

This was a wonderful con conversation, Charles.

And, um, I'm gonna put your email, uh, a way to contact you in the, uh.

In the show notes@transformativeprinciple.org and, and here's the takeaway, folks.

If you're listening, our challenge to you is to go on a podcast, write an article, or start your own podcast or your own blog or whatever to get your voice out there because your voice really does matter.

Anything you want to add to that, Charles?

Charles Sosnik: I, I think that's so important, Jethro.

Um, your ideas matter.

Your voice matters, and, and take the time.

Because it's important and you're helping people, and I thank you for that.

And I'm so proud of all the people that listen to the show and are in education and, and read our magazines and together, let's get this thing done, man.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, very good.

And if you need help with any of that stuff, starting a blog.

Starting a podcast, whatever it is, getting on there, um, get on their people's podcasts, just reach out to me, uh, at jetro Jones on all the socials, and I would love to connect you with people who can help you with that.

And, uh, thanks everybody for listening to Transformative Principle.

Again, connect with Charles at in the show notes@transformativeprinciple.org.

Thanks again, Charles, appreciate you being here.

Charles Sosnik: My pleasure.