Transformative Principal

Jethro Jones: Welcome to
transformative principle where you

learn how to be a leader and not
just a manager of a to-do list.

I'm your host Jethro Jones.

You can find me on
Twitter at Jethro Jones.

I love doing the mastermind with
principals every single week.

It is so rewarding and
invigorating to hear.

People overcome their
challenges day in and day out.

I want to share some of the
things that people have found most

useful to them as they've been
participating in the mastermind.

Here's a couple, I really
appreciated the reminder of the

need for essential learnings.

Even though I feel isolated and
alone, I recognize that I have

a group here where I'm not alone
and we're all in this together.

Another one.

Figuring out hiring what's most useful
having conversations with people

about topics that we still need to
address, even if the timing's not

right, doing the mastermind is awesome.

And you would love it if you were
a part of it as well, go to Jethro

jones.com/mastermind, and let's
schedule a chat to talk about whether

or not the mastermind's right for you.

That's Jethro jones.com/mastermind.

This week's episode.

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So we've talked about the first two
mistakes that instructional leaders make.

The first one was focusing
too much on student outcomes.

And the second one was
staying out of teachers with.

Staying out teachers' way, man.

I'm just stumbling.

Pardon me?

So what is the third mistake
that instructional leaders often

Amber Dembowski: make?

Yeah, this one is going to be short and
sweet and I think most instructional

leaders would agree with me.

It's the mistake is just staying
busy because staying busy.

Isn't the same as being
productive in your day.

And one of my favorite visuals, when
coming to prioritizing our time as.

Management matrix, you know,
there's yes, isn't that awesome.

So there's four quadrants, just
real quickly quadrant one are the

things that are important and urgent.

So those might be deadlines
that are coming up, or maybe

a crisis that was unexpected.

Quadrant two is really where the rubber
hits the road, but it's often overlooked.

So that's, what's
important, but not urgent.

And I'll come back to that in
just a second, but quadrant three

are the not important, but urgent
things that come up in the day.

So that could be an angry
parents wanting to talk to you.

And not just that, it's not important,
but it's not impacting teaching alarming.

Let's say.

And then quadrant four are the
not important and not urgent.

And so that an example of that might be,
you know, taking to answering emails,

let's say, so what we really want to,
where we want us to focus our time is

quadrant two and we need to find ways to.

And that quadrants, but what makes it hard
is quadrant two is not coming and knocking

at our door or her calling our phone or
popping into our email because quadrant

two is all about the teaching and learning
that's happening every single day.

Like it's in the way are six teachers
with no subs to fill the job.

Like I said, the angry parents or
the student behaviors, those are

things that we can't ignore and
they come at us loud and clear.

So we just have to be really intentional
with our time and really do a self audit

of as our calendar and our day being.

Low yield tasks or high yield tasks.

Um, high yields to me are
things that are positively

impacting teaching and learning.

And that's what we need to continue
to do, continue to audit our time.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, absolutely.

And you know, one of the things
that I've worked with principals.

Multiple times is this idea of
creating, uh, an ideal week and saying,

here's how I want to spend my time.

And then making sure that those
other things get scheduled in so

that you, you know, like, yes,
there's going to be emergencies.

Yes.

There's going to be things that are
urgent that you need to deal with,

but not everything is that way.

And having a time dedicated.

To doing those things that are not urgent
during the week is really important.

So you can get that@jasperjones.com
slash ideal week.

And I share that, and I believe that you
have something along those lines as well.

Don't you do a Monday mindset
or something like that?

Amber Dembowski: Yes.

I have a Monday mindset podcast.

And it's more about it does talk about
managing your time, but it is more about

being mindful in your day that we want
to be performing at a peak capacity, then

truly we need to have a healthy mind.

And so the Monday mindset is shared out.

Uh, every Monday for those who subscribe,
uh, through apple or through iHeartRadio.

However, if, if people head over to my
website at www that Amber then bow ski,

that com they can also subscribe there.

When they subscribe through my website,
they get my podcast Sunday and they

also get a planner that goes along
with it so that they can personalize.

Um, what was talked about
in the, in the mindset.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, very good.

So make sure you check that out.

And there's a link to that also in
the show notes for this episode, if

you just tap on the, the cover art,
which is a beautiful picture that

my wife designed, or if you swipe
left or right, you should be able to

get to that link and check that out.

Now, I want to talk about this idea
of budgeting your time appropriately,

because it's, it's so important.

And so one of the things that I did is I.

Tuesday afternoons from after lunch until
the end of the day, we're set aside for

doing district stuff, whatever that was.

And so if there was, you know, a
project that the district needed,

or there was something that I'd
follow up on or training for

state testing or whatever that.

That would fall into that slot.

And so I made sure that that slot
always was saved for that purpose.

And if I didn't have any district
stuff to do, it was really easy to, to

just not do anything then and do the
other things that needed to be done.

But if I ever had something,
I would always say, I'm just

going to set that aside until.

That day at that time,
and then I can do it.

What other tips do you have for managing
your time so that you're not being pulled

about in every different direction?

Amber Dembowski: Well, I like to schedule
the things that are important first.

And so the things to me that are
important are kind of squeezing myself

into the teacher's day, not in an
awkward or take over kind of way,

but more in a curious and supportive.

So that looks like, you know,
getting into the classroom during

instruction so that I can really
see what's important and what's not.

So I like to schedule those into my
calendar every Sunday for the following

week and truly I consider it a success.

And this is what the people
that I consult and work with.

Um, if you can get into at least
nine classrooms, 10 minutes.

And each classroom a week,
uh, that's truly a success.

And within that time, you can certainly
pull out pieces of feedback that

you can provide the teachers during
that time, which is actually kind of

transitions well into my next mistake
that I shared through the AFCD article.

Um, it talks a lot about

Jethro Jones: feedback.

Amber Dembowski: Yeah.

So mistake four is always seeking
out ways to critique, which

really falls back on our feedback.

And so when we provide teachers
feedback, we need to recognize what

is the purpose of that feedback?

Are we providing the
feedback to help, to fix.

And just on my recent Monday mindset
podcast, I shared about this exact topic.

Helping means that we want to make
something easier for others or assist

them, but helping isn't perceived
as a relationship between equals.

So helping implies that the teacher
doesn't know as much as you or

me and that they're weaker or.

Now, and if we, if we approach things
from the perspective of fixing things,

then that means you're approaching
the teacher as they're broken.

And even though this type of
feedback as well, intentioned,

the teachers may begin to question
you and may begin to believe that.

You know, we don't think
they're doing a good job.

So there is a time and a place
for this type of feedback.

I would say, you know, a conversation
following evaluations or a formal

observation, or maybe during a
coaching cycle type conversation.

But if you're providing this
kind of feedback during weekly

walkthroughs, like the attendance.

Visits that I was just talking about.

It can be more damaging than helpful.

And I just want to give you an example,
one classic way that instructional

leaders are unintentionally approaching
teaching from a help or fix mentality

as through their glow and grow feedback.

Have you heard of that?

The glow and grow?

Yes.

So.

Pointing out something positive that
they observed and then they'll end

with something for the teacher to
consider, or maybe an area to grow.

And the instructional coach
or administrator thinks that

they're doing their job by
providing this type of feedback.

But in this situation, what
they don't realize is they're

approaching it from a stance of any.

So, you know, something like,
I know more than you or from a

stance of brokenness, like your
instruction isn't strong enough yet.

So you'll get a lot more bang for
your buck by approaching feedback,

through the lens of serving.

And when your objective is to help or
fix your focusing on your expertise or

assessing and responding to needs and
women you serve, you're approaching

it completely different because you
see the wholeness of the teacher

and you trust that they're working
hard, that they're doing their best,

and that they have a lot of goodness
and talent to offer the classroom.

So when we serve others, we strengthen
others and serving requires us

to know that our humanity is
more powerful than our expertise.

So in the, in the feedback example,
serving looks like leaving a note

of feedback, pointing out the
great teaching and learning that's

happening, and then stopping there.

There's no need to point out an area
of growth or something considered

to consider in that moment.

It's just a different, that challenge
is some people's thinking for sure.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, it sure does.

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Uh, my approach to evaluation has,
and, and observations and all that

has, and giving feedback has really
changed over the past few years.

As I've seen that every time I try.

Too.

And I haven't put it in the terms
you're using to help or fix it has

ended up souring the relationship.

And every time I have focused on serving,
it has improved the relationship.

And I'm just cycling back through
my teachers right now, and staff

members that I've worked with.

And what I'm seeing is all the
people who grew under my leadership.

I was focused on serving them and all
the people who either got worse or

we had bad relationships with it was
because I was helping or fixing them.

And, and the way that you
phrase that is really good.

My approach now to evaluation
observations is, is simply to,

to ask questions that are either.

How can I help you do better?

Like, what do you need?

What support do you need?

What resources do you need?

What things can I take off your plate?

Or what do you think needs to improve?

I now recognize, and I'm embarrassed to
admit this to all my former teachers.

I apologize.

I now recognize that I do not have all
the answers and that's awful for me

to admit, because I feel like I should
have had all the answers my whole life.

And I just don't, you know, and, and so
unfortunately, as a principal, I thought

that I needed to, or I thought that I
was supposed to, and really what I need

to be doing is, is serving them because
when you serve them, they grow way more.

Then you can imagine.

And so, so one of the things that
I'm trying to figure out is how to

create a totally service oriented
evaluation that takes out the

score that you assign takes out.

The rating of teachers takes out all that
other stuff so that you can just focus

on serving that person and helping them
become the best that they possibly can.

Amber Dembowski: Well, and,
you know, there has been more

and more research on this.

Gallup found that when employees are
given primarily positive feedback.

So what we're talking about with the
serving them, that when they're given

primarily positive feedback, but 98%
of them will be highly engaged in.

And when we provide that glow
and grow type feedback, but you

know, it's somewhat critical.

Only 66% of them will be
engaged in their work when they

receive that type of feedback.

I just recently read a book titled,
um, let's see, nine lies about

work written by Marcus Buckingham.

And he has done a lot of
research in this area as well.

And his research is more about employees.

Aren't looking for feedback,
they're looking for attention.

And so when we're noticing the good
things that they're doing every

single day, they're going to become
intrinsically motivated to do better

rather than being told they need to do

Jethro Jones: better.

That is, I totally believe that.

And so like, when you think about how
this, how this actually applies to, to

what we're doing, I had a teacher who,
when we implemented a Marzano evaluation

framework, she started getting ranked
lowly because she wasn't doing the things

that Marzano said were good, but she'd
been teaching for like, 20 years and had

been taking 10 years in the middle to be
a instructional coach in the district,

and then came back to the classroom.

And by all accounts that she was
measuring, she was a great teacher.

And then I came in and started ranking
her low because honestly she wasn't doing,

she may have been a great teacher 15 years
ago, but she wasn't doing the things that.

Our good teaching in our district.

And, and that, that situation turned
her into my mortal enemy and she was

like, she would do anything she could
to undermine and take me out of the new.

For good reason, because I was treating
her like a, not like a child, but

like a dog, you know, it was awful.

And I look back now and I'm like,
what in the world was I thinking,

like, if I would have had a serve
service minded approach to that, then

I would have been much better off.

And unfortunately the, the evaluation
systems that we use, they do not

teach you to be service minded.

They teach you to be critical to find
something wrong that the person has.

And then to make sure that they know
about it and to never let them forget it.

And so this teacher in a final act of
defiance, At the end of her year, when

she was retiring, she signed set a staff
email at the end and signed it with her

name and then her score from, uh, the
evaluations that I had given her and

just like totally just drove that point
home and said, You're awful Jethro.

Sure.

Amber Dembowski: Yes.

Live and learn.

And we make so many mistakes along the
way, but as long as we're reflective

about them and make adjustments for the
future, that's, that's truly the point.

But your, your story, there is such
a great example of, of my mission

because I've fallen into this.

Same traps.

It's the, it's the policies and
the expectations and all of that.

That's put out there and the
pressure that really takes the

humanity away from education.

And I'm just trying to bring it back.

I think it's so important to
be bringing back that humanity.

Jethro Jones: Yeah, I think so.

So, uh, Amber, this has been
a wonderful conversation.

I have loved talking with you.

My final question is what is one thing
that a principal can do this week to

be a transformative principal like you?

Amber Dembowski: Oh, the one thing
that you can do this week is to

take time, to recognize each of the
teachers for the talents that they're

bringing to their classroom and
really bring that to the forefront

of the teacher so that they know.

You see the greatness in them, because
once they know that you see it, they're

going to want to show you more of

Jethro Jones: it.

Yeah.

Hmm.

That is good.

I do want to remind everybody to go to
Amber demboski.com and check out her site

and her podcast and any other connections
you want to make before we sign it.

Amber Dembowski: No, I think that's great.

I've enjoyed my

Jethro Jones: death row.

Okay.

Well, thank you so much for being
part of the transformative principle

and thank you for listening.

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