Transformative Principal

Jethro Jones: welcome to transformative
principle, where we interview real

principals who are doing amazing things
to help our students every single day.

I'm your host, Jennifer Jones.

You can find me on
Twitter at Jethro Jones.

Today.

I am very fortunate to have
Tony finished his interview.

If you are listening to this in the car,
you might want to pull over and take out

a notebook because Tony has so much great
information to share with you today.

He is an inspiring
principal who you can tell.

He loves what he does and loves the
students that he's working with.

This is a great interview, and I
hope that you learn a lot from.

And I hope that you'll excuse that
I was recording in a place where

there was a training going on.

They came in halfway
through the interview.

And so when I talk, there's
a lot of background noise.

I did my best to erase that.

So it's not as annoying.

So anyway, the good
thing is what Tony says.

So you can ignore most of what I say.

And I'd like to thank our
sponsor for this week's episode.

SaneBox this last week
was spring break and.

So I didn't get a lot of emails,
but it was really nice at the end of

each day to get an email from SaneBox
telling me about all the marketing

emails that I'd missed and be able
to deal with those and not have them

interrupt me while I was on spring.

So please click the link in the
show notes and give SaneBox a try.

I think you'll really love it.

Tony Sinanis: for

Jethro Jones: sure.

So let's talk a little bit about
what you're really good at and

known for, and that's being a good
branding expert for your school.

Talk about how somebody would.

It's just getting into social media
and how they could take their school

from nothing to being a positive
brand that people think that.

Tony Sinanis: Sure.

Um, I think, I think the whole branding
things, just so you know, I'm going to

food is being delivered as I'm doing this.

And I have the

. No worries.

So the whole branding thing for
me started, um, after I took a

workshop with Eric Schenander.

Um, last year at eight,
no two years ago at AACD.

And then again, last summer at
N ESP, which is the elementary

school principals association.

And Eric said something really
simple that resonated with me.

Why are we going to let other people
tell our stories when we can be the one

telling our stories, we can create the
perception, we can build the reality.

Um, and, and it just, it stuck with me.

And I was like, yes, we can.

You're right.

We control that.

Why am I going to let the local paper
write something with a local news

agency, run a story about the common
core or high stakes testing or, or

how much teachers get paid and we get
paid too much and blah, blah, blah.

Um, when in fact we can spotlight
not only what we're doing, right?

Because I can tell you all the
wonderful things we're doing again.

But when we tell a story, I, you, how we.

So I can tell you, we do writer's
workshop, but how does that look?

Right.

And why does it look that way?

Because writer's workshop is rooted in a
philosophy of, of teaching and learning.

It's rooted in the gradual
release of responsibility of

learning from teacher to student.

And so it's about philosophy.

It's not about program or resources.

Um, I wanted our community to know that
I want our community to know that that

that's what we build our thinking on.

Not just randomly saying, okay, let's
buy this resource and put it in place.

This is why we believe in
that this is how we do it.

You know, um, we believe in one-on-one
instruction here at Cantiague.

Like we do a lot of
one-on-one instruction.

There's a lot of, you know, uh, reading
conferences, writing conferences,

math conferences, whatever,
because every kid is different.

They learn different and we
believe in formative assessment.

And what does that mean?

Here are pictures to show you, you
know, um, we believe in small group

work because research shows that
proximity plays a role in, in teacher

transmission of learning to student or
student availing themselves to learning.

We believe in valuing the whole child.

Like I love my kids and they know that.

And so when kids feel good
about themselves in a space,

their brain releases endorphins.

And when your brain releases.

You are open to learning, you know,
so that's the background in terms of

like, that's the stuff that we do here.

So why are we going to let news day
write an article about the fact that

we get paid too much or that we only
work eight months out of the year?

Some, you know, business like that?

No, because we do a lot, a lot
goes into everything that we do.

Every choice we make is thoughtful
is reflective, is meaningful.

It's not just random.

We just randomly decide to
do one-on-one instruction.

There's research that
speaks to the power of that.

So after hearing.

And talking about it in
our school, I started using

Twitter are I'm very fortunate.

Our building is, um, is wifi.

Um, and I walk around with an iPad
and I take pictures all day and

I tweaked them out with captions.

I'm conscious.

I don't put anyone's name in a tweet.

I just write, you know, grade
two kid working on making

an inference or whatever.

So, um, that's how I
started telling the story.

I did Twitter one-on-one workshops for
parents so that they can get connected.

We have over a hundred parents with.

Um, we have 400 kids, so not bad.

Um, but I also realize that
not everyone's on Twitter.

So we use Storify, which is a web-based
and app based resource where you can

curate all your tweets and collect them.

And so I send those out in a
link to our parents on Friday,

here's our weekend sweets.

They still get the
picture and they get the.

I'm really thoughtful about the caption,
because I want that to capture the how and

why not just the, what, not just like here
we are in a small group, we're in a small

group because, you know, blah, blah, blah.

So, um, that is how I've gone
about branding our school.

So hashtag canny ag, he goes into
every tweet and, um, he does it.

And, um, you can find that
when you Google Kenny ag.

It was an opportunity for us to
take control of our storytelling.

And I know people think branding like
negatively because you're trying to

market or whatever, but you know what?

We are businesses.

That's what we are.

Um, we are about money on some level.

We are obviously primarily about
kids, but money's involved.

So we.

We need to capitalize on that.

We need to tell the story.

So that has been the main
platform for me, social media.

The other thing that I started
doing this year, which I love is

we do video updates with our kids.

Um, and so each week a different classes
spotlighted, and they have a couple

of days to go around the building
and find out what each grade level is

doing and what special areas are doing.

They come and they have lunch with me
on Wednesday or Thursday, depending.

And we film a little video.

It takes like 20 minutes or so, but it is
such an awesome experience for these kids

to know what's going on in their building.

And then we shoot this video out.

So I'm not the one telling the
story because you know what, I can

make it up from my office, right.

Because the principal just
sits in their office all day.

Well, my kids are the
ones they're living it.

They're telling us.

Um, so next week we will start.

We have gone through.

Great.

Fourth, third and second.

So we're going to start first grade.

So we're going to have little first
graders finding out what they're

doing in fifth grade, and they're
going to come and tell us about it.

Um, so I'm really excited and the
feedback has been really positive.

Uh, those go on YouTube.

I use the TouchCast app.

And they then go on YouTube and,
um, we get over 300 views a week,

which I think is pretty awesome.

You know, um, George Gross, who I love
and I respect, he has picked up my

video, um, updates and he spotlights them
during his presentations and Dean sure.

Risky, or I don't remember
how to say his name shows.

Okay.

He also spotlights those, which is great.

Yeah.

Like, it's such a powerful tool
and it takes so little time, but

it's student voice so that the
brand management has been shifted

from me to our staff and our kids.

Because the one thing I need people
to know, if they're listening to

this, you have to make sure that brand
experience matches the brand promise.

So I can't sit and tell you that we
believe in one-on-one instruction.

We believe in small group
instruction and that never happens.

Um, it's got to happen.

And that starts inside.

That starts as a, as a school community
that starts as a district community.

Like, what are you doing?

What do we believe in?

What, how are we going to teach
us, how are we going to plan?

You know, we believe in, uh, you
know, understanding by design.

So we believe in essential questions.

That's going to be a part of
our thinking when we plan.

And so that brand.

Must match a better brand experience
or don't put it out there.

Don't falsify what's going on.

So that's, that's my thinking.

Jethro Jones: Yeah.

I think that's great.

Don't tell people that this is how
we do things at our school and it's

not really how we do this is what we
believe, but it's not really what we do.

Those have to be aligned.

And I think that's a,
that's a great point.

So you taught Twitter and
one-on-one classes to parents,

um, and staff and staff.

And then, um, you do.

These weekly videos.

Um, and then you post those out.

How have you dealt with
these student privacy?

Um, parents not wanting
their kids on the internet.

How have you dealt with that?

Is that through

Tony Sinanis: education?

As a great question?

I got lucky because I work
in a district that forces not

forces, but families have to.

So when they registered their kid,
they have to check off the thing that

says, I don't want them in pictures.

Yeah.

And which is, which really is genius.

Because if you try to get everyone
to opt in, you're going to be

chasing people around for years.

So, um, so we do the opt-out thing
and I have been so transparent in it.

I talked to the parents about it all
the time and I. And I, and I can tell

you that it has changed the relationship
between our school and our community.

It's, it's transparent.

They know what's going on.

Um, they feel comfortable coming
to me and asking me questions.

When we have PTA meetings,
we're not just talking about big

sales and, and, and fundraisers.

We are talking about book
clubs and what those look like

and why we believe in those.

We talking about guided
reading and why that is.

We talk about math and focus.

Cause that's a new math
resource we're using.

How is that preparing our kids for
middle school and so on and so forth.

So the conversation.

So much richer, um, and parents
feel that they can access my parents

who tweet me about math homework.

They're like, need help
with this math problem.

What do we do?

You know?

Um, and it it's, it's,
it's, it's transformed.

So you talk about transformational
leadership that has transformed

the way we function as a community
because no school can be successful

without the community support and no
community can grow without a school

that's, you know, constantly reflect.

I thinking and evolving.

So, so that's really been
a focal point for me.

That's awesome.

Jethro Jones: Um, sounds like there's some
amazing things that are happening there.

Is there, is there anything else that,
uh, that you want to say about that

branding, something else that somebody
could be doing that they may not be?

Tony Sinanis: I think it's just
a matter of starting small, find

something that you want to spotlight
and build it from the inside.

Like talk about it as a staff.

And this can be like faculty, like, so
we don't have faculty meetings anymore.

I don't call them faculty meetings.

I call them faculty intimate opportunity
because they're an opportunity

for us to learn and grow, not just
for us to sit and hear me talk.

Um, you can spend an entire year
as a school thinking about what you

believe, what do you believe in,
what do we espouse in our actions?

And, and what does this communicate
when we say this or do that?

And so I think you have to start
there and then go, go from that point.

Use Facebook or use Twitter or,
you know, get to the parents the

way that is easiest for you to do.

That's, you know, we use
email a lot of emails.

So,

Jethro Jones: uh, I have two
questions that I ask at the end of

each interview and they sometimes
take a very short answer and

sometimes this is a very long answer.

So to respect your time,
I'll ask them right now.

And then if you take a long
time, then that's okay.

But, um, the, uh, the first one
is, um, What is something that

somebody you advice you would give
somebody today to help them become

a transformative principle like you?

Tony Sinanis: Um, wow.

Okay.

I would say three things.

One is, it's not about you.

It's about the community
and what their needs are.

So when we talk about transformational
or transformative leaders,

those are people who can.

Get their finger on the pulse
and realize what needs to change

and why it needs to change.

So don't just change things for
change sake, because you think

you're a change agent was then it
becomes about you and not the school

community or, or the instructional
practices or the kids or whatever.

Um, and that's, I've seen
people fall into that trap.

Um, and so it's not about you.

Um, the second thing is.

You must stay current.

You must be informed.

You must be read.

You must know what instructional practices
that are rooted in research that I've

shown to be effective are ones that
you value and you want to see in your

school and you must get buy-in in those
again, just be used to ending at a

meeting and saying, Hey, you know what?

I think small group instruction
is what we need to do, and this

is what we're going to do now.

But instead of.

Share an article, send a link out,
get the people talking about it and

get people thinking about it because
in order to be a transformative,

a transformative leader, you're
transforming, people's thinking, right.

You have to be able to transform
people's thinking, but the only

way that's going to happen is if
they trust you is if they know that

it's not again, not just about you.

Um, it's about the issue.

It's about the need.

It's about the gap.

It's about whatever.

And so I guess, relationship.

Are very much at the core of
any transformative leadership

or transformational leadership.

Um, because that's the expectation
that we're going to get student

achievement to increase.

We're going to get test scores to go up.

We're going to get teachers
to do X, Y, and Z. And the

community is going to do ABC.

That's what transformational
leadership is about.

But the only way that happens is if
the relationships are rooted in trust

and people know that you're not doing.

For you, you're doing things because
they're in the best interest of our kids,

of our community or so on and so forth.

Um, yes, that is so

Jethro Jones: powerful
before I do the last thing.

That's the thing that I've heard over and
over and over from these transformative

principals that I've interviewed,
it's about relationships and trust.

And once that's established,
you can do pretty much anything.

And I appreciate you
reaffirming that, cause that

Tony Sinanis: is so vital.

And the only way people would trust you.

Is if you're you're, you're
not only talking the talk,

but you're walking the walk.

And when I first got here, I was
modeling independent reading conferences.

I was modeling small group instruction
because that's what I believed was

effective, but I was totally open
to, Hey, tell me, rip me apart.

Tell me why this does not work.

Um, cause I don't know.

What do I know?

I only know from the experiences
I have and when you build that.

The smartest person in the
room is the room, right?

Everyone in that collective space.

And we have such expertise in our
buildings, in our communities that

in order to be transformative or
transformational or whatever, the

word it takes us collective process,
this, this, this, this group effort.

You're not going to do it alone.

Um, and the last thing I'll say,
and this is just me personally, um,

don't take yourself too seriously.

Don't take yourself as the
principal too seriously.

Cause you're not that big of a deal.

You're replaceable in a moment.

But take the work that you do seriously.

And I live, I live for the space.

I live for these kids and for
our staff and our community.

And it's why I'm here on a
Friday when I'm off this week.

And it's why I come in on weekends.

This is why I'm here until 5 30,
6 o'clock at night at the expense

of other things in my life.

Very much, because this is a priority.

So for any new leaders who might listen
to this, it's not about you don't take

yourself too seriously because when
you start walking around, like, I'm the

principal, you project this like sort of
finished product, I'm finite, I'm done.

I'm the principal.

So I don't need to learn anymore
because I did all this stuff, but you

know what, if anything, you need to be
learning the most and you need to be

projecting the most and sharing the most.

And again, it's not about you.

It's about the relationships
you build and it's about.

You're not taking yourself too seriously.

That's my opinion.

I like to laugh and have a good time.

So I will, I think

Jethro Jones: that's great advice also.

Um, I, uh, I was talking to a teacher
just a couple of days ago and she said, I

finally realized that I am a replaceable
parts in a big system and I can be out of

the job tomorrow and the work will still
continue on and it doesn't matter if it's

me doing it, or if it's somebody else.

And, and so I need to do the best that
I can, but I have to remember also

that I'm not, I'm not the center of it.

The kids are, and whatever I'm doing

Tony Sinanis: needs to be focused on.

And that's it, you're, it's not about you.

Like, I don't show up here because,
um, I want people to like kiss the

ring and, you know, um, bow to my feet.

Uh, no, not at all.

I come here because I want to set the
stage for other people to shine and for

other people to grow and for other people
to learn and my job as a. It's to remove

the obstacles, not be the obstacle or not
be the focus or whatever, you know, so

that's really important to me as well.

Jethro Jones: Absolutely.

That's awesome.

Um, so the very last question is kind
of a light softball question for you.

What's something in your office
that you have there that inspires or

motivates or reminds you why you're

Tony Sinanis: doing what you're doing.

Okay.

I mean, really, it's pretty easy for.

This is when I look at every
day, um, this is my son.

Um, and, um, he's, uh, he's, he's my life.

Um, his name is Paul and
he is, um, in fourth grade.

He is why I do what I do because
when I come, when I come here,

I always in the back of my head,
think, what would I want for Paul?

What would I want Paul's school to
be like, what would I want Paul's

classroom to be like, what would I want?

Paul's a community.

What would I want Paul's principle
to be like, and that's where I leave.

I leave from that space.

And, um, I think that's
done me all right so far.

Um, and I've learned more from him
about education than anything I learned

in a course in a book, in a class.

Um, because when you're
a parent, I get it.

I get it.

My parents come in here and they might be
angry about something or they might be sad

about something or they might be, this is.

With this other person is like
your heart and your soul right.

Wrapped up in this other little body.

So I think of Paul and I think
of the 403 kids that I have here.

They are someone else's
life and heart and soul.

So I have the most
important job in the world.

We as educators have the most important
job in the world and I value that.

And so he is my motivation
very much on a lot of levels.

Amen.

Jethro Jones: I, my oldest
daughter, her name is caught tissue.

In second grade right now.

And, uh, yeah, same type of thing.

I've I feel like so much of what
I do is, is dependent on, on how

I would want her to be treated.

And, and it gives me a great respect
for the struggles that our, our

students and our parents are going
through and keeping her in mind helps

me make those, those choices that are
really beneficial for all my stuff.

Not just one here, one there,

Tony Sinanis: but for all of them.

Yeah.

You know what, Paul Paul, our
son was born with medical issues.

His main issue is that he has, um,
congenital scoliosis, um, which

requires surgery every six months.

So it's quite a journey.

Right.

Um, but what I've learned from Paul,
he's so incredibly resilient and he's

so incredibly positive, um, that I
realized anything that we can do.

Anything we want to do,
we can do, we can make it.

Um, but everyone has a in their life.

So it may not be a medical issue,
but our kids, our staff, our parents,

they have a Paul in their life.

You know, it might be someone
who's learning disabled.

It might be someone who's
going through a divorce.

It might be someone who
is addicted to drugs.

It might be someone who lost all
their money because of the, you

know, re uh, re uh, recession.

Sorry.

Everyone has that person in their life.

And we have to value that we
have to put value on that.

And if we want our staff to be
successful, we want our kids

to be successful as a leader.

I need to remember that because our
staff is coming to school and they

might've have had their kid throw
up on them on the way to school.

Or they may have had their mom go
to the hospital the night before,

or one of our kids coming to school.

And they may have heard their
parents arguing the whole car

ride to school or whatever.

Those are things that.

Shape us for me, it's Paul that
shapes, you know, my family.

Um, and so that's important
to keep at the forefront when

you're interacting with people.

When you're placing expectations
on people, they are these

people who are shaped by their
outside lives and experiences.

That's that's something important to me.

Absolutely.

Well,

Jethro Jones: thank you so
much, Tony, for your time.

Is there any, uh, final shout
out you want to give or, or how

people can connect with you?

Tony Sinanis: Uh, you can file.

Find, follow me on Twitter.

I'm at Tony T O N Y. S I N a N I
S and my last name is a palindrome.

So spell forwards and
backwards the same way.

So if you forget to spell it backwards,
uh, and I'm, I'm pretty active on Twitter.

Um, you can go to Jericho
schools.org is our website.

You can find my school, Kenny
ag elementary school there.

You can see my email address if you want.

Um, we have units of study
available online, you know,

whatever people want to see, but
Twitter is the best way to get me.

Um, when all I can say is,
remember that being an educator.

It means that you are constantly
looking to learn and grow

for the sake of children.

Right.

And so we can keep kids at the
center then we're good to go.

That's right,

Jethro Jones: Tony,
again, thank you so much.

This has been awesome.

Tony Sinanis: My pleasure.

And I'll talk to you soon.

Have a great day.

Bye-bye bye.

Bye.

Bye

That

Jethro Jones: really was an
awesome interview with Tony.

He is such an inspiring leader, and
I hope that you learned a lot from.

I'd love to hear what
you think about the show.

Please feel free to send me some feedback.

jethroJones@gmail.com or you can
find me on Twitter, follow me there

and give me some feedback as well.

At Jethro Jones is my Twitter handle.

Also, if you like the show,
please share it with your

friends on Twitter and Facebook.

Send them emails, let
them know what's going on.

Even if they're not into a social
media, you can still share the

great things that you're learning
from these wonderful principles.